Talk:Ngarrindjeri

Ramindjeri

Given Ramindjeri redirects into Ngarrindjeri and more importantly Ramindjeri Call Over Ngarrindjeri-"['Kaurna]" in

I have been made increasingly aware thanks to Pre-eminent enduring Sovereign Ramindjeri Spokesman Karno Walker media online of at least my necessary paradigm shift from like Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion" to the South Australian Museum's Ethnicist Norman Tindale's apparent 1920s-1974 so called "['Kaurna]" Map, publicly posterity published perpetrated and Adelaide University UNESCO Award winning "['Kaurna]" Linguist Dr Robert Amery and Australian Cultural Heritage Management P/L CEO South Australia Government Consulting Anthropologist Dr Neale Draper perpetuated "['Kaurna]" delusion whereby I'd been invited on 16 Dec 2009 to Ramindjeri Heritage Association Inc Public Meeting held at the Adelaide City Council Old Box Factory in preparation for we whitefellas' Australian Adelaide Federal Court of Australia House Hearing Ramindjeri Call Over Ngarrindjeri-"['Kaurna]" when Karno Walker was elected into that Pre-eminent enduring Sovereign Spokesman role by those registered Ramindjeri and assembled plus witnessing then "['Kaurna]" identifying Great Grandmothers Carol Agius and so called "Kaurna Native Title Management Committee Female Co-Chair" "Kudnarto" Joan Lamont Williams plus supporters like myself, Sam Rossi and March 2010 Independent SA MLC Candidate Mark Aldridge and in response to the above commentary I am now in a position to posterity publicly sincerely apologise for my in good faith naive North London born New South Wales raised 2004 perpetuated apparent misguided misdirection and provide the following information at least, putting the above on Notice from Unley City Council Full Council Minutes (FCM) On Monday 23 August 2010 at 7.00 pm MOTIONS OF WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN Item 727 Notice of Motion from Councillor Hudson re Acknowledgement of Kaurna People at Council Meetings 29], — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mifren (talk • contribs) 28 August 2010

Transcript of Unley Council minutes

UNLEY CITY COUNCIL ITEM 727 MOTION OF WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN NOTICE OF MOTION FROM COUNCILLOR M F HUDSON RE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF KAURNA PEOPLE AT COUNCIL MEETING Councillor Hudson has given notice of intention to move the following motion at the Council meeting to be held on 23 August 2010: That: The City of Unley’s present Council meeting acknowledgement of the Kaurna people as the traditional custodians of the Adelaide Plains be amended to read: We acknowledge that the land we meet on today is the traditional land of the Aboriginal people and that we respect their spiritual relationship with their country. We also acknowledge that the Aboriginal people are the custodians of the Adelaide region and that their cultural and heritage beliefs are still important to the living Aboriginal people today. This amended acknowledgement also be used at all appropriate functions, ie Citizenship ceremonies, meetings of the City of Unley Development Assessment Panel, etc. Background As you may be aware, I have raised this issue before in this place in the interests of historical accuracy. It is brought forward to you again as a result of the documentation I provided to all Members several weeks ago concerning the proposed legal actions by representatives of the Ramindjeri people. They claim that the Ramindjeri are traditional occupiers of all the land lying between the southern bank of the Torrens River to at least the southern most tip of the Fleurieu Peninsula. This proposal is not designed to do anything other than to forestall our involvement in any possible future litigation, given a potential Native Title claim over the Adelaide Plains south of the Torrens River from any another Aboriginal group besides the Kaurna people. Council should not be placed in the awkward position of being seen to favour any one group above another. (This is page 29 of the Council Agenda Reports for 23 August 2010)

In case any interested parties watch this page but not others, this discussion seems to be happening at Talk:Hindmarsh_Island_bridge_controversy#Non-existence_of_the_Ngarrindjeri--Yeti Hunter (talk) 05:37, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Meintangk

As stated above in Ramindjeri, Given Meintangk redirects into Ngarrindjeri and more importantly Meintangk [1] I'm genuinely concerned, wondering, why would such vital information with over google search 10pp, be still missing after all this time from wikipedia!? Especially as wikiEditors like Yeti Hunter (talk) have been so active in this critically important area. I see from [2] that "Reconciliation Through Truth" hence that SA Truth Commission.

I just read, [3]

Ramindjeri men take concerns to UN forum which included, "A paper by Tanganekald Meintangk elder Dr Irene Watson was also accepted for consideration at the forum."

All this demonstrates that there's a lot more that could, should be actively communicated, captured here in wikipedia writing. Matthew (talk) 20:15, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top.
The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). -Yeti Hunter (talk) 23:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Ramindjeri workers

Actually YH, which source are you referring to? As the reference source Ramindjeri Kaiki Granite Island History & Culture expressly states, "History

Granite Island, characterised by its huge granite boulders tinged with orange and green lichen, has a uniquely distinctive history. The island has a cultural history based on the beliefs of the Ramindjeri group dating back countless generations, as well as a European history dating back to 1802 when Englishman Captain Matthew Flinders on the Investigator and Captain Nicolas Baudin on Le Geographé discovered the area.

Cultural History

Granite Island is part of the local Ramindjeri Aboriginal landscape, and is identified as Kaiki rather than Granite Island. The island has always been of great importance to this indigenous group, as the male Supreme Creator Ngurunderi is believed to have created the island by throwing a spear into the sea. The Ngurunderi Dreaming extends from the upper reaches of the River Murray, to Kangaroo Island." ... "From this point on, Victor Harbor became recognised for its whaling and sealing opportunities. In the early nineteenth century, Encounter Bay attracted large numbers of whales and seals. Whaling stations were erected on Granite Island and the Bluff to pursue the Southern Right Whale. The Ramindjeri people were regarded as competent whalers and were employed as harpooners and whale spotters."Matthew (talk) 14:37, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

The statement is sourced to Jenkin, and has been for some time before you added the Ramindjeri source today. Regardless, this article is about the Ngarrindjeri, of whom the Ramindjeri are a part. It is more appropriate to use the name for the larger group in this instance. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 15:31, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

An inherent difficulty with your apparent black and white amateurish wikiEditor approach YH is that you're clearly ignoring the fundamental features, key core concerns when it comes to both "Ngarrindjeri" are in actual fact Kukabrak; and Ramindjeri have asserted their dominance over what Jenkin defined as "Narrinyeri (Ngarrindjeri), the confederacy of eighteen tribes""Australian Dictionary of Biography" Taplin, George (1831–1879) by G. K. Jenkin

Clearly as Ronald Murray Berndt, Catherine Helen Berndt, John E. Stanton published 1993, "A World That Was: The Yaraldi of the Murray River and the Lakes, South Australia", Forward xxvii, "Much of the early literature on this south-eastern region refers to the Aborigines collectively as the Ngarrindjeri 'confederacy' or 'nation', but in the Berndt's view this is misleading. Although there was freedom of movement over the region, and many bonds linked the culturally similar 'tribes' or dialect-named units that comprise the Ngarrindjeri, there was no political unity to warrant the 'nation' or 'confederacy' labels."

Unfortunately as it is 0244 now, my mind is tired and I'm unable to easily transcribe Ngarrindjeri Wurruwarrin By Diane Bell 1996 for readers at this time, I hope then you will take this opportunity to simply click & follow that link to read for yourselves?

Likewise, Listen to Ngarrindjeri Women Speaking: Kungun Ngarrindjeri Miminar Yunnan edited by Diane Bell

Further References can be seen at ngarrindjeri confederacy google search Matthew (talk) 17:23, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Luke Trevorrow

I've moved mention of Luke Trevorrow's cannabis conviction from "Famous Ngarrindjeri" to a new section on the Ngarrindjeri Regional Authority. My first instinct was to remove the mention of Trevorrow altogether, per WP:SCANDAL or WP:UNDUE. However, it does appear mighty damning. As Justice Southwood said during sentencing, he holds a position of great responsibility in his community and yet has been involved in perpetuating the dysfunction of other remote communities. On balance, I think a short, neutral paragraph could be warranted, but I would like to see what other editors think. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 02:42, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

This is a hard one. I lived in an Aboriginal community for a while and saw first hand the problems so I'd prefer mention of Southwoods remarks to clarify the significance in regards to Aboriginal communities but that would make the paragraph too long (and prominent). I can accept what is there now. Wayne (talk) 04:50, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I've restored it. However, I dopn't think there's a shadow of doubt it violates WP:Undue, WP:Relevance; WP:Recentism and a dozen other things. As Yet admits that it 'appears to be mighty damning', and we don't write articles (well some editors elsewhere do, but) to smear communities. I do not see how a single case of one person running a marijuana (I mean is there any metropolitan party down under where a few heads don't slip out to suck on a weed or two on the balcony? Not when I was last there) business warrants inclusion. If it were glue-sniffing, or rum-running on an Arnhem land territory, etc., that wrought havoc on a community, there might have been a point. I say either elide it or make a one sentence ref to the status of the person and his conviction for the marijuana trade.--Nishidani (talk) 09:40, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I've simplified this, but think now, on reflection, that this should be removed. That a Ngarrindjeri leader was arrested for drugrunning in Arnhem land to the north has nothing to do with the southern Ngarrindjeri community or the section on its representative body. It's a personal matter, done in a private capacity. This is smearing by using the technique of guilt by ethnic association. If no one objects I'll remove it tomorrow, unless someone will do it in the meantime.--Nishidani (talk) 12:13, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I think the changes you've made are appropriate. As for removal, it's line-ball as far as I'm concerned. Maybe this is one for RfC.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 15:03, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

If this is retained, then the precedent is that at Northern Land Council any detail (and there are abundant facts for this) re personal problems with the law among former or present members of the council (drunken driving, shooting incidents, violence) should be posted on that page. Of course they shouldn't, any more than Gordon Nuttall's conviction for corruption, or Merri Rose's for extortion, or Keith Wright's for paedophilia figures on the wiki page for the Australian Labour Party, or Barry Morris's conviction for making a death threat, or Brian Austin's for theft of public monies is registered respectively on the pages for the Liberal Party or the National Party (data from List of Australian politicians convicted of crimes). The anomaly here is that this is scandal-mongering with an ethnic target. I only reverted because the editor restoring it did so without discussion, but it has no place here.Nishidani (talk) 16:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Hardly "scandal-mongering with an ethnic target" as the judges comments make very clear. This is not a personal problem in any way similar to those above but a violation of what the position he holds stands for so is not a precedent for adding personal failures. Comparing this to corruption or stealing public monies is an insult. I support adding enough of the judges comments to make this clear. Trevorrow has no article of his own so it needs to go somewhere. Wayne (talk) 02:36, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Wayne, what has Trevorrow's personal problems with the law in the Northern Territory got to do with the Ngarrindjeri Regional Authority in South Australia? (b) If Trevorrow is not notable (his father was a rupelli or leader of the 18 tribe confederation), or there is simply not enough material to make an article for him, why do we have to find some space on wikipedia for the fact that he was involved (in a minor way) with flogging marijuana in Arnhem land? (I haven't been, on my visits, to a party in white Australia where cannabis isn't smoked). My objection has nothing to do with censorship or ethnic sensitivities. There's no policy basis I can think of which can justify clogging a tidbit like this in a section dealing with a regional authority, unless one wants to open up a section on 'Convicted Ngarrindjeris' (Moogie Sumner, Darrell Sumner, David Unaipon,Squashy Kartinyeri,Poltpalingada Booboorowie etc.etc.) It stands to reason that every municipal council or authority will have a record of members who have had convictions during their time in office, but no wiki article I know of registers these minor facts on the municipal page. It's completely anomalous.Nishidani (talk) 12:32, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

You miss the point. Trevorrow's position involved preventing what he was convicted of. It's as if the commissioner of police were found to be selling drugs in his spare time. Wayne (talk) 16:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Preventing aboriginal people from smoking cannibis, when it's very frequent among all classes of whites? If Trevorrow was found doing that in his own community, while his official function was to see that habits like smoking cannibis did not take root, you might have a case for saying that his behaviour was pertinent to the Ngarrindjeri Regional Authority. It isn't, as far as I know.--Nishidani (talk) 17:47, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

<bump> So, no-one objects to removal? I think Nishidani makes a good point above about similar scandals not being included on the pages of political parties. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 10:12, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Recent change

Pachequis, your recent change, particularly the first sentence, doesn't make grammatical sense, and I'm struggling to comprehend what it's supposed to mean. Can you please clarify here, or look at rewriting for clarification? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 00:29, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

1) Trying to convert the Aboriginals to Christianism, George Tapling creates the Raukkan mission for the Aborigines' Friends' Association

2) The Ngarrindjeri people of the Coorong region moves to the reserve

3) The land is small, but the Aboriginals thrived for a generation by the use of commerce

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, English is not my first language. @Laterthanyouthink, can you please help me to make sense out of it? Here is the quote for the first sentence: "Ngarrindjeri people of the Coorong region, to the south-east of Adelaide, also embraced new enterprises. In 1859, George Taplin established Raukkan (Point McLeay) mission for the Aborigines' Friends' Association. Many Ngarrindjeri settled there to stabilize their community after the frontier decimation." Pachequis (talk) 00:54, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

No worries at all, thank you for that Pachequis. I couldn't see the source and I didn't want to assume anything from it that was wrong, but what you wrote conveyed the gist of it. I have just restructured it slightly to clarify things, and added something from the Aborigines' Friends' Association article.

If you are likely to do more editing on topics relating to Aboriginal Australian people, you may be interested in this draft style guide - still a work in progress, but it gives you some idea of what we're trying to establish as standard usage based on various sources. Thanks for your work on the article! Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:08, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much :) Pachequis (talk) 02:37, 21 May 2023 (UTC)