Talk:Nigel Dodds

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Untitled[edit]

Dodds would almost certainly call Derry Londonderry so that's the preferred term in this context I think. Please let's not have yet another childish rv war on that subject!!!

I think "a party not known for its intellectualism" is a bit pov (although I've a feeling I put it there in the first place!!!) so I've removed it. Happy to discuss. Gerry Lynch 22:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Although Derry seems to be the standard term on Wikipedia, the inclusion of the official name does'nt overly bother me. I would rather keep the reference to intellectualism, as it seems to mark the party out from most of the others.

Lapsed Pacifist 01:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Even though I probably wouldn't dispute the fact, the reference to "intellectualism" is definitely POV, so I've removed it. Stu 10:56, 2 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

POV-pushing[edit]

From your edit history, it's clear that you do not believe that Northern Ireland is a legitimate state. You are entitled to that opinion; however, you are not entitled to push this opinion by rewriting articles to remove all references to "Northern Ireland". This latest tactic is just another version of your old "six counties" and "north-east" gimmicks. They didn't work; neither will this. Stop playing games and wasting both our time. Demiurge 00:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]


I presume you're addressing me, Demiurge. Feel free to put any interpretation you like on my edits, they will stand or fall on their own merits. There are no fewer than seven instances in this article where the words "Northern" and "Ireland" appear consecutively. Were I 'rewriting articles to remove all references to "Northern Ireland"', I think I might have been slightly more thorough. Were you to write "Dodds travels regularly to Britain to attend parliament", and a particularly obstinate user insisted that you use the word "England" instead, you might have a better grasp of my reasoning.

Lapsed Pacifist 04:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Who else would he be addressing LP? There are seven instances of 'Northern Ireland' in the article as this is the official name of the country being referred to. Simple as that.
The sentence "Dodds travels regularly to Britain to attend parliament" is completely different matter. England is part of Britain. Northern Ireland is not a part of Ireland in the context to which you are inferring. Stu 15:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom but it is not part of Britain. Millbanks (talk) 19:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

fair point Millbanks. I should point out to Stumason that Northern Ireland is part of Ireland. However, it is not part of the Republic of Ireland. Codu (t)⁄(c) •  17:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 06:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Derry-Londonderry edit warring[edit]

Is there a notice anywhere on this article saying that WP:1RR applies? I couldn't help but notice this when skimming the log of currently active bans and blocks (and then zooming in on a participant or two to find out what the "edit warring" was about). 204.52.215.107 (talk) 04:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC) Also, this is pretty OLD edit warring: judging from the above comments, it's been going on since 2005! 204.52.215.107 (talk) 04:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted your edit. In Ireland related articles counties are not added when they are evident, such as "Galway, County Galway" and so on. The style manual does not say to use both, only which term applies to the city and which to the county. O Fenian (talk) 20:15, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Post-nominals[edit]

Since he's now a Privy Counsellor, there should presumably be a "PC" amongst his post-nominals. Andrew Gwilliam (talk) 13:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Not clear[edit]

It is not clear if the brick was thrown at Dodds deliberately or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.93.17 (talk) 11:34, 17 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Londonderry[edit]

The post 1973 city and district council area, now defunct since 1st April 2015, and which changed its name from Londonderry to Derry in 1984, included the actual city and extended into the county. The actual city and the county are both still officially called Londonderry, as is the postal district. Dodds was born in Altnagelvin hospital which today still lies inside County Londonderry. Dodds himself, being a unionist would be happy with the use of the correct name. I can see no justification for using a shortened version. It's not about consensus. It's about fact, otherwise any majority of editors at any time could name any place in the world anything that they liked.

Sorry, but Wikipedia works on the basis of consensus and on the basis of WP:COMMONNAME, not official names. That's why, up to 2011, we had an article at Libya, not at "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya." A majority of editors couldn't name a place anything they like because names have to be backed up with reliable sources. If you disagree with this, you should seek to have it changed at the talk page of WP:IMOS, but be aware that this issue has been discussed to death on the Derry talkpage (for example here) and you'd likely be flogging a dead horse. Valenciano (talk) 10:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I had a look. It seems to me that most of those editors are confused. In 1973 Northern Ireland was divided into 26 district council areas. One of those was the District of Londonderry which was given city status because within it lay the smaller City of Londonderry. The smaller City of Londonderry still exists today and has a Lord Lieutenant. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Lieutenant_of_the_City_of_Londonderry ) In 1984, the larger 1973 creation known in full as "The City and District of Londonderry" had its name changed to "The City and District of Derry", but that did not affect the smaller City of Londonderry that lies within it, whose official name still remains "Londonderry". The 1973 creation "The City and District of Derry" has now been disbanded, but the original pre-1973 City of Londonderry continues. Meanwhile the County of Londonderry is, and has always been Londonderry. The Royal Mail postal district is also officially called Londonderry. Anyway, none of this should matter as regards Nigel Dodds since he was born in County Londonderry, and I don't agree with you that Derry is the common name for either the city or the county. People use both, as does the media, and Nigel Dodds himself uses Londonderry. Would it not be polite, since its a biography of a living person, to use the preferred usage of the subject in question? http://www.nigeldodds.co.uk/profile Why use what would be the choice of his political opponents? An encyclopaedia needs to be accurate. It's not about promoting what a small active group of editors, at one moment in time ten years ago, decided that they would like the facts to be. 86.162.190.142 (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And just one more question. What makes you personally so keen to make sure that Nigel Dodds, a unionist, is described as coming from Derry as opposed to Londonderry, when everybody knows that Nigel Dodds himself would call it by its official name 'Londonderry', as do most people in Northern Ireland? What is your personal interest in all of this? I thought that care had to be taken with biographies of living persons, and that sensitivity had to be shown. And why would you not allow it to read Altnagelvin, County Londonderry? Why was it so important to you to come to this article and revert to Derry? Would an Irish republican politician born in Northern Ireland like it if wikipedia insisted on describing him as British, which he technically would be? Why are you trying to wind Nigel Dodds up? I thought the policy regarding living biographies, where opinions and controversies are concerned, was to side with the view of the person in question, where that view would be known, as it is in this case.
To answer your first question, Dodds' page is one of hundreds of politicians' pages I monitor to ensure that they are neutral, free of vandalism and comply with our manual of style. When I first joined Wikipedia, I thought the same as you did, that Wikipedia used only official names, which is why I changed it to Londonderry myself (this edit), so you see, my interest is in maintaining existing consensus and it always amuses me when people, who are far more invested in the subject than I am, try and imply I have an agenda. If all of you are correct, then I'm Ian Duncan Smith, taking time out from my ministerial schedule to moonlight as the Russian President's chief of staff to supplement the income I get working for the DUP's David Simpson, whose politics are apparently perfectly compatible with my supposed Irish Republicanism, best exemplified in edits like this. :) I wish you'd all make up your mind!
Seriously, back to topic. An Irish Republican politician born in Northern Ireland wouldn't technically be British, since the Good Friday Agreement allows people born there to be British, Irish or both and by default, we describe them as Irish, the same way we describe Jim Kilfedder or Ernest Baird as British or Northern Irish even though they were born the other side of the border. Your thoughts on BLP are wrong, if that were the case we wouldn't be able to say anything negative about any politician, lest it "wind them up." I don't have an objection per se to Altnagelvin, but reliable sources don't say that, they all say he was born in (London)derry, see for example his own website or the Northern Ireland Assembly site, a city which is known on here as Derry. As I've said before, if you want this changed then you'd need to seek a wider change at WP:IMOS or WP:COMMONNAME. Valenciano (talk) 13:03, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Valenciano, OK, I accept that you don't have an agenda. You must realize by now though, that the official policy is flawed. It seems to be based on the fact that the district council area was called Derry after 1984, but that is not the same thing as the city itself. That seems to be the basis upon which it was reasoned that the city would be called Derry, while the county would be called Londonderry. It's faulty reasoning. Both the city and the county are officially called Londonderry. Secondly, it's wrong to classify this as a simple 'common name' dispute. This is not a common name dispute. It's a dispute about the fact that the republican faction specifically want to remove any mention of the word London in the name of the city. That reason should therefore be mentioned in the article itself as fact, so that foreigners (or indeed local readers) understand why some people want to call it Derry. At the moment, that important fact is being avoided, and the official policy seems to be playing into the hands of republicans who want to make readers wrongly believe that the city is already called Derry, while hiding their motives. 86.162.190.142 (talk) 17:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The county and the city of Londonderry don't overlap. They are both called Londonderry, but you can't come from both. Each has a Lord Lieutenant and each has its own car license plate letters. The post office has a postal district called Londonderry which extends into the county from the city. City of Londonderry car license plates use the UI prefix while County of Londonderry cars use the IW prefix. This article here lists the UK's lord lieutenants. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_Lord_Lieutenants_of_the_United_Kingdom You can see the two Londonderry entries alphabetically at the letter 'L'. 86.162.190.142 (talk) 11:11, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WP:MOS we donnt link sir, WP:BLP we mention nationality first and what he is notable for. WP:OVERLINK a continuous run of blue links is to be avoid (unlink of NI in background). Clarify Derry not County Londonderry in infobox, as per WP:MOS it is more precise, and as per WP:DERRY we use Derry for the city, Londonderry for the county. All the above have consensus. Murry1975 (talk) 18:06, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Have to agree with the IP. Derry didn't exist when Nigel Dodds was born. Its like saying CS Lewis was born in Northern Ireland 23 years before Northern Ireland was formed. In this case IMOS doesn't apply.Dubs boy (talk) 18:03, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So what you're saying is that Derry only came into existence when the city council was renamed in 1984? By that logic, the city must have been abolished earlier this year. No, that doesn't wash and WP:IMOS has nothing to do with the city council's name. Valenciano (talk) 18:09, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What he said socky. Murry1975 (talk) 18:11, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Murry1975, enough with the sock remarks ok. I've a valid enough query into the content. Quasi Common name stems from the *Derry* used by the former City Council. Without this change, Derry would not be as common as you say it is.Dubs boy (talk) 18:35, 20 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Number of children[edit]

@Ponyo: you previously reverted the change from 2 to 3 in the infobox. According to the Belfast Telegraph he has two living children, a third died aged 9 in 1998. Obviously this is something we would need to handle with sensitivity, so perhaps we should leave the number of children out of the infobox and simply deal with it in the relevant section? FDW777 (talk) 09:15, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That is an option. As long as the material is reliably sourced within the article the rest is up to editorial discretion. -- Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 21:13, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lords[edit]

See https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/members-and-their-roles/how-members-are-appointed/. It normally takes several weeks from the time a potential new member is announced, by the government or the House of Lords Appointments Commission, before their actual appointment. Before anyone becomes a member, a title has to be agreed and legal documents called Letters Patent and Writ of Summons must be prepared

So let's not be in a rush to update the article then? FDW777 (talk) 22:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fully agree. It's already noted in the article that he has been nominated for the peerage. As I noted in an edit summary, his exact title has yet to be agreed. We can add it soon when announced. Valenciano (talk) 19:58, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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