Talk:Non-ionizing radiation

Health Risks[edit]

As Kgrr suggested below, I also think the table should list the exposure level required to be dangerous. Cell phones, wifi, and microwave ovens are indeed similar wavelengths, but one operates on power levels a million times higher. As written, the article might lead someone to think that the risks of each are the same.BBGun06 (talk) 19:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Types[edit]

Is there a reason this article focuses on biological effects of non-ionizing radiation?

The article should define the ionization barrier properly Done

...then name types of non-ionizing radiation

Ultraviolet
Visible
Infra-red
Microwave and RF
Radiowaves
Low frequency RF Done

Then the article should briefly address the hazards of each

(Aren't these hazards too vague? The listed effects are ominous and as such make these forms of radiation seem more dangerous than they are. Perhaps listing the amount of exposure required to bring about these effects and how serious these effects would be would give people a more accurate portrait of the health risks.)

ULTRAVIOLET RADIATION

Biological effects
Effects on the Skin
Effects on the Eyes
Other Hazards
Occupational Exposure Standards
Protection Against Overexposure
Recommended Maximum Permissible Exposure Levels

VISIBLE AND INFRARED, LASERS

Biological effects
Effects on the Skin
Effects on the Eyes
Other Hazards
Occupational Exposure Standards

MICROWAVE AND RADIOFREQUENCY RADIATION

Biological effects
Effects on the Skin
Effects on the Eyes
Other Hazards
Occupational Exposure Standards

LOW FREQUENCY RF

Biological effects
Effects on the Skin
Effects on the Eyes
Other Hazards
Occupational Exposure Standards

Kgrr 15:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

references[edit]

Journal/Conference[edit]

Kwan-Hoong Ng (20th – 22nd October 2003). "Non-Ionizing Radiations – Sources, Biological Effects, Emissions and Exposures" (PDF). {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite journal requires |journal= (help); Unknown parameter |Journal= ignored (|journal= suggested) (help); line feed character in |Journal= at position 80 (help); line feed character in |title= at position 65 (help)

Government[edit]

The number 1 reference for this article, for an EPA site, is a broken link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evilest oreo (talk • contribs) 09:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The number 2 reference for this article, for a Medical College of Wisconsin site, is a broken link. It's the only reference for the entire section labeled "Health Risks". Rt3368 (talk) 06:29, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

References #3 and #5 are to the same PDF Press Release — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.47.178.12 (talk) 19:37, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

IARC and California research summaries[edit]

The removal of this under the basis that it is biased and original research is utterly ridiculous. They are the summaries of two high profile literature reviews with the summaries quoted word for word. There may be reasons that they are not appropriate, but it is certainly not the ones cited in the revision. Please do not remove again without discussing reasoning. Topazg 15:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like you're directly quoting from original research to me. Word for word too? Do the publishers not retain any kind of copyright? I know my University does. Thanks for pointing that out. Also, I agree that there are many reasons why it is inappropriate to put all this here, not least because it severely disrupts the flow of the article and makes it more about this sub-sub heading rather than the subject of the article. TIA 82.10.209.215

No, both reviews are entirely in the public domain (and the links should be to the articles directly. I am happy with removal under the basis that is extremely odd to have this level of detail for such a minor part of the article. I have left the link to the Health Concerns section of the Power Transmission page as it is well sourced, cited and documented. Again, thanks for approaching this with discussion :) Topazg 18:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Profoundly wrong[edit]

All UV radiation is ionizing. Even visible blue light is very (very) weakly ionizing. It may be considered practically insignificant (despite that primary world consensus ensorses a linear no-threshold model of ionizing radiation exposure), but to say that it's non-ionizing is quite simply wrong. Whoever put UV-A, UV-B, and UV-C in this article is dangerously full of shit. They all represent a non-zero risk promotion of cancer. --70.131.118.243 (talk) 22:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to correct the article, making sure to back up and changes with credible references. Adam McMaster (talk) 07:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not radiation is ionizing depends on how tightly the electrons are bound. For neutral atoms in the ground state, visible and very near UV (lambda > 318 nm) are non-ionizing. Cesium has the lowest ionization energy of all elements, and it still requires wavelengths below 318 nm. :-User: Nightvid (unregistered)

I have now removed wavelengths of radiation shorter than 318 nm from the table, because they are not strictly non-ionizing (that is, shorter wavelengths can ionize neutral atoms of at least one element). In general the maximum wavelength that can ionize element X is hc/E_x, where E_x is its ionization energy and hc = 1240 eV * nm = 120,000 (kJ/mol)*nm. See Ionization energies of the elements for more information. -User: Nightvid (unregistered)

Non-ionizing radiation not mutagenic?[edit]

Under health risks the article state that non-ionizing radiation is non-mutagenic but this is not strictly true. UV light is capable of acting as a mutagen without the need for ionization. It can act on DNA and produce pyrimidine dimers leading to chromosomal lesions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.32.8.99 (talk) 05:27, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, 2.5 eV/photon can ionize DNA [1] 2.5 eV is even less energy than visible light. Chemical bonds change the ionization potential, so the removal of UV and visible light only applies in a universe where there are electrons but no binding (this is just silly for many cases like Hydrogen where the. Obviously, DNA is an important thing to think of when you are concerned about ionization, not sure why this article would exclude it from consideration. 0¹⁸ (talk) 14:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's also a bit of an inaccuracy that quantum energy is required for mutagenesis. There are other causes of DNA damage (such as free radicals) that do not require ionizing radiation (nice summary from the UK National Grid here: [2]). Of course, there still needs to be evidence between non-ionizing radiation and free radical creation, but it isn't reasonable to assume that non-ionizing radiation cannot cause DNA strand breaks because it isn't ionizing. topazg (talk) 10:23, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with these statements as a radiation biologist, one of you should change them to reflect the ionizing and mutagenic potential on non-ionzing radiation. After all, excessive sun causes skin cancer, does it not?

128.157.160.13 (talk) 22:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're a "radiation biologist" and you disagree with Wikipedia's internally consistent position that sunlight (or some types of UV light that are solar in origin) are in fact ionizing and have mutagenic effects on skin cells? Maybe you can rewrite this section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet#Harmful_effects so that it's in direct opposition to the position of the World Health Organization. Somehow I'm skeptical of your maintaining a position in the avowed field. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.253.227 (talk) 01:19, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The radiation biologist is right. The internally consistent WP position has now been changed to reflect the subtle fact that non-ionizing EM radiation with enough energy to cause single-photon chemical bond changes and free radical formation, can act very much like ionizing radiation, without having enough energy (quite) to be technically ionizing. So nearly all UV is non-ionizing and yet is mutagenic and carcinogenic. Its effects are far beyond thermal. There's even some evidence for such effects of visible and near IR in skin. These without question produce free radicals and molecular damage by mechanisms which are not simply thermal. Visible light produces free radicals in plant leaves, which is why they are all full of carotenoids, for example. The debate on non-thermal effects of non-ionizing radiation has now shifted to microwwave and RF, simply because there is no debate anymore about UV and visible light. UV and visible light do have non-thermal radiation effects on molecules, so such quantum effects are not just a property of ionizing radiation. For reasons that are easy to see, when you think about it. S B H arris 00:47, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources of radiation[edit]

I'm very surprised that under the three infrared sections in this article, the only sources cited are remote controls and lasers. As far as I know, there are many sources of infrared radiation, such as black-body radiation from most objects, including the sun. I believe this should be changed. ~~Zeuskabob — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.168.50.194 (talk) 21:45, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, of course. This part of the article isn't finished. Feel free to add stuff. S B H arris 22:04, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can somebody tell me what is inhibiting the automatic creation of a content box in this article??[edit]

It's very mysterious. S B H arris 23:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Later. Nevermind. It had a __NOTOC__ line. That did it. S B H arris 00:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NTP research on cell phones[edit]

Adding a note here, going to try and integrate the below.

Here. Shaded0 (talk) 03:13, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

this whole article is just more disinformation and lies about things that are terrible for humans but make big companies tons of money so they invest in professional liars to run their propaganda campaigns and silence dissention. reminds me of flouride, gmo, chemtrails, vaccines, nonexistent laptops, diaries, and pedophiles et cetera. Snarevox (talk) 20:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reference to NTP 2018 study[edit]

The current version of the article links to an 80 minute podcast which has a qz.com article listed as a source for the topic, which in turn links to another article on the same website, and only then does it link to the draft reports page of the US NTP. => https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/about/org/sep/trpanel/meetings/docs/2018/march/index.html

Should the current reference be changed to a direct link to the draft page, and later the released study itself? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.159.238.172 (talk) 00:38, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

→Yes, it should.BBGun06 (talk) 18:58, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cmt7613:, @BBGun06: I do not have time to review the NTP study in full. However, WP advises using secondary references to the study rather than directly including, per WP:USINGPRIMARY. The edits by Cmt7613 it critical of the current state of the page, but I do not think it bears removing the content entirely. Someone more knowledgeable on this please revise. Thanks. Shaded0 (talk) 13:48, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cmt7613: how long have you been employed in the pr department at at&t?? are you guys currently hiring? Snarevox (talk) 21:03, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]