Talk:Northern Low German

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Germany

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Unsourced stuff - Questions and Remarks[edit]

"Westniederdeutsch is quite atypical for dialects in Germany in general."
And why?
"There are radio stations mainly speaking Northern Low German in Paraguay, Brazil and Canada."
To which dialects/languages does this refer? Plautdietsch, Pomeranian-based varities in America (like East Pomeranian-based varities in South America)?

Lameli only covers Low German in post-1945 Germany and not East Pomeranian, Low Prussian, Plautdietsch. So it's OR to include it in Northern Low German.
"It is spoken in several states of Germany."
True, but how useful is this information, why mention it?

Nordniederdeutsch is spoken in the states Schleswig-Holstein, Hamburg, Bremen, Niedersachsen; Westniederdeutsch in Niedersachsen and Nordrhein-Westfalen; etc.

Should the states for every dialect be mentioned, or only for Northern LG as a whole? And especially if it should be or every dialect: Are the states known? Nordostniederdeutsch is spoken in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, apparently also in Brandenburg, possibly also in Schleswig-Holstein or Niedersachsen - Lameli's map doesn't help to judge that.

--19:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't know, what causes your opinion that the German states should not be mentioned. It is not usual to refer to specific varieties used in a radio station. Sarcelles (talk) 21:43, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Questions are:

What should be mentioned, the states for each sub-dialect or only the states for Northern LG as a whole?
Why should they be mentioned? To give a more concrete area where the dialects are spoken? (Makes sense as long as there is no map.)
Can they be mentioned? See above regarding Nordostniederdeutsch.

--00:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.221.40.167 (talk)

Contradicting classifications[edit]

Currently, there are two contradicting dialect classficiations used as sources:

Lameli who is the source for Northern Low German and its varieties.
Wiesinger's map in Atlas zur deutschen Alltagssprache as source for transitional areas.

Both sources have another classification of dialects and contradict each other:

Lameli's Westphalian only includes East and South Westphalian; in Wiesinger it's broader and also includes Münsterländisch and Osnabrückisch.
Wiesinger has "Mecklenburgisch-Vorpommersch" and "Mittelpommersch" which Lameli merges into "Nordostniederdeutsch". So while Wiesinger has a transitional area between the two dialects, Lameli doesn't and can't have it.
Lameli only considers Low German in post-1945 Germany, while Wiesinger also considers Elsaß-Lothringen, Schlesien, Hinterpommern, West- and Ostpreußen. Hence it's an open question how Lameli would group Low German in the East and if there could be transitional areas.

Additionally:

In the section of transitional areas, many places are mentioned. However, the source Wiesinger doesn't give them. So it's rather OR-y, like comparing Wiesinger's map with other maps and guessing which places lie in the transitional area or using other unnamed sources.

Possible solution:

Remove transitional areas as off-topic as they aren't part of Lameli's classification with his uncommon Northern Low German, or move it into Low German which is a more fitting place.

--19:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

The subdivisions by Wiesinger contradicts the one by Lameli. However, Lameli mainly has larger areas. small transitional areas are not off-topic, however. Sarcelles (talk) 06:41, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]