Talk:Northern boundary of Massachusetts

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Figuring out the details of the 1629 charter[edit]

all that parte of Newe England in America which lyes and extendes bewteene a greate River there comonlie called Monomack River, alias Merrimack River, and certen other River there, called Charles River, being in the Bottome of a certan bay there, comonlie called Massachusetts, alias Mattachusetts, alias Massachusetts Bay;

The land between the Merrimack and Charles Rivers

and also all and singuler those Landes and Hereditaments whatsoever, lying within the Space of Three English Myles on the South Parte of the said River, called Charles River, or of any, or every Parte thereof;

and the land within three miles of the Charles River

and also all and singuler the Landes and Hereditaments whatsover, lying and being within the space of three Englishe Myles to the southward of the Southernmost Parte of the said Baye, Called Massachusetts, alias Mattachusetts, alias Massachusetts Bay;

and the land within three miles of the Massachusetts Bay south of the Charles River

and also, all those Landes and Hereditaments whatsoever, which lye and be within the Space of Three English Myles to the Northward of the saide River, called Monomack, alias Merrymack, or to the Northward of any and every parte thereof,

and the land within three miles of the Merrimack River

and all Landes and Hereditaments whatsoever, lyeing within the Lymitts aforesaide, North and South, in Latitude and Bredth, and in Length and Longitude, of and within all the Bredth aforesaide, throughout the mayne Landes there, from the Atlantick and Westerne Sea and Ocean on the Easte Parte, to the South Sea on the West Parte

and the land extending somehow west to the Pacific Ocean?

It's unclear exactly what the last part means - it seems lines were to be drawn west to the Pacific Ocean, but from where? Were those lines to continue east to the Atlantic Ocean? --SPUI (T - C) 05:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Figuring out the details of the 1691 charter[edit]

All that part of New England, in America, lying and extending from the great river commonly called Monomack, alias Merrimack, on the north part, and from three miles northward of the said river to the Atlantic or western sea or ocean on the south part, and all the lands and hereditaments, whatsoever, lying within the limits aforesaid, and extending as far as the outermost points or promontories of land called Cape Cod and Cape Malabar, north and south, and in latitude, breadth, and in length and longitude of and within all the breadth and compass aforesaid, throughout the main land there, from the said Atlantic or western sea and ocean on the east part, towards the South sea, or westward, as far as our colonies of Rhode Island, Connecticut, and the Narragansett country.

(Cape Malabar is Monomoy Point) From three miles north of the Merrimack River through the Atlantic Ocean, west as far as existing colonies. --SPUI (T - C) 06:14, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Wpdms province of maine 1622.png implies that it was simple lines drawn east-west from the furthest points on the rivers. --SPUI (T - C) 06:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

details on 1629 grant, and a question[edit]

There was an inline comment asking for more detail about the 1629 charter and just what it granted to the MA Bay Colony. I've been reading an excellent book on the history of borders in the US and it describes this topic in some detail. So I tried to make clearer just what lands had been granted in 1629 (at least, what lands were understood to have been granted--the language of the actual charter is difficult to interpret without historical context on such things). One bit of text I wasn't sure how to keep and am not even sure is true is the statement that the charter granted land as defined "unless said borders conflicted with pre-existing grants." I thought about keeping that bit and adding a 'citation needed' tag, but had trouble figuring out how to make the text flow. The Hubbard book I'm referencing makes no mention of such a thing and even shows the land granted as defined extended from sea to sea, obviously overlapping earlier grants. So instead of adding a tag I just took the statement out and wrote about it here now. Pfly (talk) 08:21, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]