Talk:Now They Call Me Infidel

Removal of JPost review

User:Roscelese has twice removed one of the sources in which the book was reviewed, but due to our edit-warring policies, I will not re-add it to the article, and instead mention it here. This 2007 review discussed a 2006 book written by Nonie Darwish. From the context, and especially after all the comparisons to the other reviews, it is clear that the book being reviewed is Now They Call Me Infidel. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Here is the article. The book's title is not mentioned, nothing in the article cites Darwish's story to any book, the fact that Darwish writes books at all is only evident in the article from the first line (for all we known, Lalor is writing about the women's public speaking). To claim that it's a "review" is blatant original research and flagrant misrepresentation. What other reviews can you cite that never name the book they're ostensibly reviewing and never indicate that the subject they're discussing appears in a book? (A tip, Brewcrewer: if you're going to misrepresent sources, misrepresent sources people can't access themselves. It's too easy to disprove you this way!) Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

The article makes it quite clear it is discussing the two recently published books. Some excerpts:

1. "the two authors"
2. "the life-threatening work done by Hirsi Ali and Darwish,"
3. "known to many readers"
4. "Her accounts of her earlier life"

Its quite ridiculous to take a position that an article is not discussing a book unless somewhere within the article the words "book review" are included.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 22:16, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

If you're claiming it's a review, you shouldn't have to connect the dots. Most reviews name the book they're reviewing (shock!) and sometimes even appear in special review sections. In short: prove it. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

copy and paste discussion from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror

More content has been removed by the nominator.[1]--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:12, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Brewcrewer forgets to mention that none of the sources state or even imply that Darwish was disinvited because of the book. The paragraph belongs in the article on Darwish, where I put it and from which Brewcrewer then removed it. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:14, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

That's just not true. The speeches were part of the book tour for this specific book. This much is made quite clear by the sources. You want to nominate it for deletion, fine, but don't try to ruin the article at the same time. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:18, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

If it's "quite clear," you should be able to provide a quote that says so. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:20, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

(od) Okay, so I spent time getting the exact words that establish the nexus between the book and the protests. The following quotes from the sources discussing the speaking controversy that you removed make it clear that the speaking controversy was a result of, if not closely intertwined with, the book she published:

1. [2]"In part to drive home that point, she wrote a book, just out. Its title says it all: “Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror.”
2. [3] "Given that Darwish is the author of the recently released book, 'Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel and the War on Terror'...."
3. [4] Last year she was banned from the campus of Brown University, in Rhode Island, one of America's most prestigious academic institutions. The speaking invitation came jointly from a Jewish student group and the women's studies department, but was abruptly withdrawn, allegedly after pressure from Brown's Muslim chaplain, who claimed that Darwish had made anti-Islamic remarks and that her presence would be provocative. The university's female, Christian, chaplain backed the ban, although it was pointed out that she had promoted an earlier Palestinian solidarity week. The inevitable row catapulted the affair - and the book - into the headlines.
4. [5]"...and authored the recently published book Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror. She joined the growing ranks of Muslim-born individuals - many of them not coincidentally women, including Irshad Manji, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan - speaking out against Islamic extremism at significant personal risk.."
5. [6] "Darwish, who has written a book, Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel and the War on Terror, became particularly impassioned when speaking about the treatment of women in the Arab Muslim world"

I suppose we can further wikilawyer and argue that none of the sources it say it explicitly that the brouhaha was related to the book, but I'll let the quotes speak for themselves, and hopefully speak to the neutral and objective reader of this discussion.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

You call it wikilawyering - I call it one of Wikipedia's three core content policies. If you have a problem with the fundamental policies of this site, why are you here? I'm sure there are many lesser sites that would love to have a piece of original research on a non-notable book. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:02, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

We already know she wrote a book. Big deal, she's a special snowflake author. Now prove that the disinvitation was because of the book. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:06, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Ample coverage in Google news sources found

Continuing the discussion from the AFD I'd like to point out that there are in fact plenty of places online that cover the book.

Google news archive search shows a lot of results [7] Some are hidden behind a paywall, but the summaries seem to be discussing the book.

• Glenn Beck interviewed the author, discussing parts of the book, on CNN.
• National Review mentions her being banned from speaking at once place, and then does a detailed interview with her about the contents of her book. [8]

Searching for just the main title of the book, not the subtitle, gives far more results. [9] Dream Focus 18:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I really don't know what results you're talking about with the Google News search. If you think the statement "Nonie Darwish wrote this book" needs a citation, by all means cite them, but they don't appear to discuss the book in any detail. And of course, go ahead and add the other stuff. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:55, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking about the comments made in the AFD is response to me, just before the AFD closed. Continuing that discussion on the talk page of the article, is what the tag up top says to do. I added the proper heading to my comments above to clarify. Dream Focus 07:02, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

References