Talk:Oh My Goddess!/Archive 2

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This is an archive page, for discussion on any material please use this page: Talk:Oh My Goddess!

Plot

"Small bits of Norse mythology are incorporated in the original Manga. For instance the names of the main Goddesses resemble or are identical to those in Norse mythology. The plot of the manga (and of most OMG series) centers around..."

gag* My first inclination is simply to rip the first two sentences out, they're so jarring and disconnected. If anything they belong in the section above, or a subsection, and demand examples.

Also since the plot pertains to all series (except mini-goddess, which is in its own world anyway), the last line should simply read "The plot centers around..." In fact it might be a good idea to simply have a plot area separate from any specific incarnations of it. --Foxy (2005.11.09)

Well, actually, that is what I tried to do- my idea was to take the manga version as the core plot, and delineate the ways in which the other versions varied instead of giving the plot summary again. I ran out of steam though around OMG TV. (BTW: if you think this is bad, go travelling through the history sometimes). --Maru (talk) Contribs 21:51, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

The problem is if you start to compare the magna to the anime you will cause the arctile to lose its Neutral point of view. In my book, you should never compare versions of one anime. --Dynamo_ace 22:06, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. It is entirely possible to compare to things while maintaining a neutral position, it all depends on what you are comparing. Just as you can compare Picasso's paintings to divide them into Blue and Rose Periods, we can be neutral in how we compare differences between the different versions. The TV series suggests X, which contrasts to the manga where Y happens. In context of the norse references, it could be a simple statement of how they are more prolific in the manga, or something like that: it is a statement of fact, and perfectly neutral. Elric of Grans 23:01, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Problem is apples and oranges. The plot of the first 5 manga releases is adequate to see the differences. A lot of it never happened on the TV serries, or at least happened completely differently. Also manga has been around over a decatde (or two?). Every manga volume should be an article on their own. TV serries can fit here which covers most of the stuff that everyone should know about (so as to evade unnecesary spoilers/conflict). The plot could be broken into smaller articles after season 2 as article would start getting too large, but since we dont even know if there will be a season 2...

The first place Keiichi visited after beeing kicked from the dorm on the TV serries is Hasegawas place, on the manga however we see something very diferent, you know what I mean if you read at least first 5 chapters of manga (which is as far as I went for now)... --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 18:49, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I do not disagree on that --- indeed, with that example, Hasegawa was not even at NIT until the following year in the manga (I am up to chapter 205) --- however, I was arguing a completely different point. I was arguing that a comparison of the two could be NPoV, not that a comparison of the two would be valuable. My personal opinion is that there is already too much on each episode of the TV series, and those bits should either be culled, or, if people feel they are valuable to an Encyclopedia, then moved to their own article. A comparison between the different canons is probably best left to a fan site, but if it were considered of Encyclopedic value, then another article on that topic would be good. Elric of Grans 22:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Give it a try :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 09:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Plot details have been migrated for room for comperasion. We now have 24 sub articles listed on List of Oh My Goddess episodes. The list should also include mini serries, OVAs... :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

It would get pretty nasty if you piled it all into one article. The OVAs, by themselves, are not much, but the original TV series, Aa! Megami-sama! Chichaitte Koto wa Benri da ne, has 48 episodes: that will see the article bloat very quickly! If a listing of the plots of each episode were beneficial to an encyclopedia, then they should go on the stub already created. To be uniform, I believe it would be a good idea to expand the OVA and manga sections, put them on their own pages, and, if necessary, include the OVA episode list on the OVA page. This main page could then become (a) a central portal to all things Aa! Megami-sama!, and (b) a place for detailing the important aspects shared by each of the continuities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elric of Grans (talk • contribs)

Whoever you are please sign your posts, and yes those would be individual articles however given mini serries are about 8 minutes each + themes adding up to 12 minutes I think that can all fit in 4 articles :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:07, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

List of Oh My Goddess episodes has room for the OVA, however I do not know the offical titles so thats why I did not cretae the links, feel free to fill in the gaps. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:07, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Scratch that I included the OVA titles. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 13:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

My apollogies: that was me. I must have forgotten to sign. If you are putting them each in their own articles, then that would be neat enough: my concern was one, monolithic article containing them all (3xTV + OVAs). Elric of Grans 22:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I am not that cruel :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:13, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to see the OVAs and TV series get their own pages, like the Movie and Mini-Goddess currently have: the links to the episode list could then be changed to these pages, and the episode list then be linked to from those pages. Does anyone have any objections to this idea? I am currently rewatching the OVAs so that I can do this, and should be able to have a crack at it tomorrow. Elric of Grans 22:31, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

That might not be a bad idea, it would prevent the episode page being overloaded in the future and cut down loading times without any degrading of the article now. - Dynamo_ace Talk

Season 2

Oh My Goddess Season 2 has been offical announced (translation) to air Spring 2006

TV Series and movie name

Please note that the Oh My Goddess! name only applies to the North American releases of the original OAV series and the manga. Neither the TV series nor the movie were released under that name. It looks pretty bad when there is a picture for the movie and the title in the article does not match that in the picture. The original text of the article also implied that the US release of the TV series shared the name Oh My Goddess!, which is not the case. -Js2756 01:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

The original title was Kanji, I am aware of the naming contravercy and on IRC I prefer to use "Ah! My Goddess!" but "Oh My Goddess!" was the official desicion. It is sometimes Ah! sometimes Oh!, I am inclined to go with the name the manga author wants on this article ;) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 18:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... The Amazon search points out "Oh My Goddess!" now you got me confused... I do not care what its called, I know is a good show. I would be happier if this article was titled Ah! My Goddess!, I am also aware this articles title was established with some sort of concensus but I was not onvolved back then. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 18:16, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Titles are based off of North American releases, they should be labelled as they were released in North America. The OAV series and manga are officially released under the name, "Oh My Goddess!" by Animeigo and Dark Horse Comics respectively. The movie and television series are released under the name "Ah! My Goddess" by Geneon Entertainment and Media Blasters respectively. If you go to Geneon's website, the movie is listed under the "Ah! My Goddess" name, not "Oh My Goddess!". Whether or not the manga author wants it a certain way is irrelevant since there are official translated releases. If we went by what the manga author wanted, the article wouldn't even be entitled "Oh My Goddess!", but would be "Aa! Megami Sama". I have no problems with the title of the article (since the first North American release of any "Aa! Megami Sama" material was under the "Oh My Goddess!" name, but for correctness, each of the individual releases should be named with the title they are released under. Labelling the movie and TV series as "Oh My Goddess!" is incorrect since they were never released under that name. - Js2756 00:21, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough. I encourage you to be bold, feel free to edit the article. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:12, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Staff and Cast

There looks to be some errors in the staff and cast lists, but I thought I would first clarify them here in case I am wrong. Firstly, it seems highly unlikely that Fujishima was not the original creator for the Mini-Goddess series, when it is based on omake from the tankoubon releases (I will change this now: please undo if I am wrong on this). Secondly, there are a lot of characters listed as having been in the OVA that I have no recollection of (eg Toshiyuki Aoshima, Banpei, Sigel). I have just noticed that Aoshima is listed twice: an obvious error, so I shall fix that now... The staff for the OVAs, Mini-Goddess series and movie are also not listed, so I shall correct that too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elric of Grans (talk • contribs)

I dont know, the mini serries have little to do with the manga plot. While the character designs were somewhat based on the manga they are not identical to say the least. Please correct all inacuracies regarding the cast. My resources are limited so I could not complete it. Note that some staff have dual posts thats why they apear more than once, at least that was my intention. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 18:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I think banpei was indeed in the ova, while I do not know about tothers, note that I have not watched the OVA so I really do not know. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 18:17, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Aoshima is most definitely in the OVA. He is in episode 3. I do not believe that Banpei or Sigel are in the OVA series though. If they were, it would be at best a cameo role, and they aren't identified anyways. While you're at it, remove Koshian and Hijiri from the OVA as well. In the OVA, Keiichi and Belldandy find the temple abandoned (episode 1), they never meet the monk and the little girl doesn't appear. - Js2756 00:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 13:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The Mini-Goddess is definitely originally in the manga. In early volumes, there were yonkoma omake entitled (in the English version) The Adventures of Mini-Urd. In later volumes, Gan-chan was introduced, and later still Mini-Belldandy and Mini-Skuld join the cast. In the original Mini-Urd version, there were a couple where she shrunk Keiichi down to size too. There was even a single volume publication of the collected Mini-Goddess manga! I think Banpei only appears in the OP of the OVAs (along with just about every other character), and am fairly sure the OVAs came out before Sigel even appeared in the manga. Elric of Grans 22:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thats good to know. Hey can you get me the list of mini goddess episodes so I can add them to the grand list. Also can you complete the OVA reviews on the list page, I have never seen the ovas and hence cannot write a 2,3 line summary on the list page. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:29, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe these are the official titles in the English release --- it is not available in my country, so I cannot confirm this. The FWBT bit in three of them is short for something: I shall try find out what later tonight. It has been close to a year since I last saw the OVAs, but I should still remember enough to write a short synopsis. It has been a good three years since I saw the Mini-Goddess anime, so I would not be able to help there. Elric of Grans 23:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

FWBT = For Whom the Bell Tells Elric of Grans 21:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Just another point. The table has a colour scheme to it at the moment: I guess it's sorted as Keiichi's household, Gods, Demons and Humans. There are two problems with this, however. Firstly, it is inconsistent: it only marks the seiyuu (it would make sense to mark the whole column, or at least the character), and some non-humans are not colour coded. Secondly, there is no key: what is the point in doing something like this if the reader does not know what it means? If possible, it would be great if whoever first added this could explain what it should be. Thanks! Elric of Grans 00:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

When I created it, I made main characters purple, godds goddess and other heavenly items cyan, demons redish, and others blue. Same color sceme is visible on the nav. I dont know, reader can figure it out IMHO :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Question of relevancy. Just how much of this is relevant? The information in the Cast table is probably most relevant, though it could easily be argued that is is only relevant on the individual character's pages, however, are all the entries relevant? The major cast (Keiichi, Belldandy, etc) are obviously required, as are significant support characters (Tamiya and Otaki, Chihiro, etc), but there are some real bit characters there. Chrono? She has, what, two lines in the movie, and is never heard from anywhere else? Who the heck is Ex? There are probably too many characters here. It should probably be kept to the significant ones, or perhaps have a separate 'List of minor characters in Oh My Goddess!' article. Non-anime does not mean minor, either: Hild is significant! Keima and Takano, on the other hand, and pretty minor (single story arc, never mentioned before or since); they are less likely to make the anime than the likes of Hild and Sigel too. Staff are in a similar boat, however, likely even more-so. They are important, but probably should all be moved to a separate article.

This document should probably focus on discussion, so the Cast section could be replaced with a brief intro to each of the main characters (with links to ther pages), followed by a link to a list of minor characters. The Staff section should include any noteworthy discussion on cast members (something the article is in a desparate need of), and the whole list kicked off to elsewhere. I would do this myself right now, but I am positive if I did my changes would be reverted, hence why I am justifying my stance first. If there are no objections, I will do it around this time tomorrow. Elric of Grans 03:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Be advised, the Cardcaptor Sakura has a full voice cast list that lists the voice actors for both major and minor charcthers. -Dynamo_ace Talk

That is true, but Cardcaptor Sakura is also 1/3 of the length, and has a lot less truly minor characters: even the 'minor' characters get significantly more air time than the likes of Chrono. The CCS page also gives a lot more information: we only have a list. In that way, the CCS character list is infinitely more relevant than what we have done. As far as I am concerned, if there can be no more than a simple one-line description of who the character is (eg "Chrono is a system operator of Yggrasil in Ah! My Goddess The Movie."), then they are too minor to be worth mentioning. On the other hand, a 'minor' CCS character could easily get a lot more (eg "Sasaki Rika is one of Sakura's classmates, and is in fact engaged to their teacher --- this point is glossed over to some point in the anime, and explored to greater depth in the manga. She is looked up to by the other characters as a mature rolemodel they aspire to be like. She is skilled at..." etcetera, etcetera, etcetera). The 'minor' characters in CCS are equivilent of Megumi or Hasegawa in AMS, and these are characters I consider worth including. Elric of Grans 21:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Any further comments on this? Does Dynamo_ace's objection still stand? Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Elric of Grans 22:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

FLC

List of Oh My Goddess episodes is now up for a FLC: Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Oh My Goddess episodes. Feel free to comment --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 14:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Character Pages

Just a minor point I wanted to get people's opintions on. On the character pages, where it lists the characters 'species', it also lists their status (eg first class, unlimited). Their rank and their species are two different things, in my opinion. Should they be divided, or just left as-is? Elric of Grans 05:27, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It should be changed. The way it is, it implies that goddesses continue to have the same license category. This is not the case, as Urd passes the test to become a first class goddess (although she declines the license). For the goddesses, there should be a license category, that lists: class (thusfar, all goddesses are first or second class), category (indicating line of work), and limitations (limited or unlimited). - Js2756 14:59, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Thats ok it can be changed and perhaps changes will happen magicaly in a few minutes. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 22:36, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... Issue seems to be fixed on all pages. :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 22:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks: I was just about to jump into it myself, but saw a heap of edits in my Watchlist instead ;) Elric of Grans 23:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

^^' --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Where exactly is the source that states the age of the goddesses? I don't recall ever seeing anything that actually documents this. In fact, the Aa! Megami Sama Colours release, specifically states that the age of the 3 main goddesses is unknown. Ironically, Gateway to the Goddesses contradicts itself by stating ages for the goddesses, yet explicitly states in their FAQ:

"According to Peorth in V21 Ch132 the goddesses have always existed and will always exist. However, given the fact that Belldandy was born at some point, goddesses apparently go through different incarnations during the course of their existence. The manga strongly suggests that the goddesses' current incarnations will live for several thousand years. For example, in V5 Ch34 Urd's license is suspended for 50 years because she tells too many lies. In V7 Ch47 Belldandy says that Urd may not be allowed to return to Earth for 1000 years.

There is no information as to how long the goddesses have been alive in their current incarnations."

For the sake of correctness, the age of the goddesses should probably be removed. - Js2756 01:46, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

How about "apperance age", they do appear like 21. Like Belldandy suggested one second in heaven can be several hundered years here. I can adjust the template once we reach a concensus on how this should be done. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 13:10, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Hijiri

Who is the voice actor and does she have a last name? --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 23:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Staff

Some staff names are in japaneese order (last name - first name) and should be made european (first name - last name). --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 19:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Order of events

Perhaps this is irrelivant, but I feel it would be better to sort these in the order they appear, because sorting them in the order of "time since Belldandy's appearance" does not make sense. After all, there are multiple, distinct canons (Manga/TV, OVA, Mini-Goddess, Movie); in the case of two of these canons, events are starting at the same time: does that mean the manga, OVAs and TV series should all be on the same line of the article? If we use past Featured Article The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as an example, each of its canons are ordered chronologically, irreguardless on where in the story it is set --- after all, each is its own story, and as such cannot be considered to be at any period of time before or after another. Perhaps I am just ranting, but it seems a little arbitrary to put the canons out of order. Elric of Grans 00:28, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh not at all, this article is to give a general idea, cast and staff etc. You already created the OVA page, there is a stub mini goness page, there is also a movie page, the TV series is the only one with out a stand alone article. I am inclined to keep the movie last as it has too many spoliers to a person who evenr watched the OVA and/or TV serries. anyhthing else isnt really related. I am not even counting the mini goddess serries in this equation. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 22:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I do not see how it contains 'spoilers': the Manga/TV, OVAs, Mini-Goddess, and Movie are each separate canons: the events in the movie have nothing to do with the others at all. They should be treated as such too, as indicating otherwise would, after all, be false of misleading information.

It is a little off-topic, but I am currently reworking the movie page, and will move onto the Mini-Goddess one in January; after this I will likely make one for the newer TV series. I am half-considering one for the manga, but that may be a little pedantic, as the manga is the central canon, so it is unlikely there would be much else worth adding that would not be already on this page (well, on this page after an extensive re-write). Elric of Grans 23:44, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

If we talked about urds black wing on the movie that would spoil season 1 of TV as reasons are revealed on episode 21 and later. The stories are not completely uneque. Only the movie should come last I dont care how others are organised strictly because movie takes place 3 years after belldandies arival. It is possible for TV to sync with movie since nothing is conflicting so far. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 00:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

No, their characters and settings are not unique, but their plots are. Character-related things would go on the character pages: after all, what relevance does the colouring of World of Elegance have to do with the movie? It is also unlikely that the TV series would ever consider the movie canon, as it follows the manga canon, where the movie never happens. Besides, your argument does not make a lot of sense: I am not saying `people should watch them in this order', rather `the article should follow a logical, chronological order'. This article should contain no plot discussion for any of the anime, so there is no issue there. As for the individual articles linked from there, if we follow standard procedure and mark spoilers as such, then anyone who reads anything they did not want to has only themselves to blame.

Even ignoring that, I still cannot understand your contention: I had moved the articles so that the Movie came before the TV series, which is the chronological order of their release: it would be coming after the articles on the manga and OVA have already explained all the central plot. With that in account, there is nothing left for the movie to potentially 'spoil' when readers come down to the TV series, which (plot-wise) merely reiterates what people would have already read in the manga section. If you want to look at things like that, then the TV series should be in the same part as the manga, as they both tell the same story, and doing it any other way would spoil things --- obviously not a logical conclusion, but it follows the same argument.

As for the Mini-Goddess, as you have stated, it has little to do with the others at all; I moved it to immediately after the OVA, as that was its chronological order. With the current, arbitrary order, having it on the end is not so bad, but it is still pretty arbitrary (not a good word for describing an encyclopedic article): it seems a little unfair to judge it as any less significant than any of the other anime. If we want to talk about significance, the OVA is pretty insignificant, and the movie only indicates that the series was popular, but is insignificant to continuity. The TV series had so-so ratings, so it could be seen as insignificant... the manga is published in Afternoon, so it is far from mainstream, and therefore insignificant. Perhaps all that is going a little too far, but it is simply trying to illustrate my point: once you start considering any part of the whole less significant, without a very good reason, then you have to look at where you draw the line. Elric of Grans 00:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Very well you do your stuff... --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 01:07, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Lord of Terror needs significant attention

The article is a mess. I'd do it myself but I am not sure on all the details that come from the manga. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 20:41, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I will take this page on next week, if no one gets to it before then. Elric of Grans 22:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Pictures

Just a thought I had. I could extract from the original page the image of Miyuki dressed as a Goddess (the origin of this series): does anyone else feel this would be a good addition to the article? If so, I could add it next week. Er, well, once I work out how to upload images, I guess ;) Elric of Grans 22:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like that. :) Uploading images is easy, just click on the upload link on any page :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 19:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Template:Oh My Goddess Infobox-Generic

Please use this generic template for all character info-boxes. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 19:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I expanded the infobox to work with episodes too. I have already done You're a Goddess? and Ah! Can the One Who Believes be Saved?, can someone else apply the template to others for me? :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 22:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I like the new box: looks a lot cleaner! I will add it to the OVA episodes today. What about for the OVA/Mini-Goddess/Movie pages? Elric of Grans 22:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Er, slight issue: can we resize images with this new box? If I saved the changes to the OVA pages as-is, the images would be too large. Elric of Grans 23:08, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... you upload the ova images, Ill take care of all of that.. I can aquire better quality images perhaps :) --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 11:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Character infoboxes

I designed the infobox to handle 6 images for:

Top: Generaly from TV serries, I like showing the angel and the goddes on the top image, this should be the 'best' image representing the character of the character.
Lower1:Should be Manga
Lower2:Should be OVA
Lower3:Should be Mini-Goddess
Lower4:Movie
Lower5:TV

However I need help to make it all happen. Obviously the "Mini goddess" is restricted to the three goddesses and ganchan so i do not think we will have too many images on other chars. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 12:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Dimensions

Okay... this has been bothering me for a loooong time. For some reason, on the character pages, people keep calling the "goddess/demons" 10 dimensions and "mortals" 3 dimensions. This is really odd, because EVERYTHING is "X" dimensions ("X" being whatever number that is; theories are still being argued it seems). We can only PERCEIVE less than that because of the whole macroscopic thing, but that does not mean we are not apart of it. I understand that AMG dips a lot into real life science, but this is one field where it seems to be misunderstood...

I have never understood the whole dimension thing either, as I have no recollection of any of it being in canon material --- it seems made-up to me. Yeah, there are a couple of references to dimentions here and there, but not about a character originating from the Nth Dimension. Elric of Grans 19:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

It's based off of logical conclusions that can be drawn from various points in the manga. In V3 Ch33, Belldandy explains that the world of Gods and Goddesses consists of more than the dimensions of the normal human world (ie. more than 3). She also says that to perceive something in X dimensions, a being has to also be X dimensional (ie. to perceive 3 dimensional objects, a person has to be 3 dimensional). Since Skuld is able to construct a 10-dimensional scythe in V6 Ch 39 (and episode 24 of the TV series), she must be at least a 10-dimensional being. This is then extended to the rest of the goddesses. -Js2756 04:12, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Being a bit of a Devil's Advocate here but: "logical conclusions" is not canon. Seeing as how "purist" some of the data in the respective articles is framed, this is kinda a no-no. Also, EVERYTHING in this Universe is 10 (or 11) dimensions: grass, paper, nuclear weapons, and my cat. Your quote that "to perceive 3 dimensional objects, a person has to be 3 dimensional" is slightly in error as well. Technically you DO percieve all the dimensions; but technically you don't. It's all in the crazy math. But I degress...

My point is: Keiichi is a 10 dimensional being, because he is human, and humans are 10 dimensional beings. (or 11... depending on the theory) I'm just pointing out that the usage is totally flawed in the articles.

And before anyone goes crazy saying, "don't bring real science into fantasy" - I'm just pointing out that AMG likes to dip into real science from time to time. While the whole dimension thing has been used, IMHO its fanon to use it to claim their dimensional status, as it has no bearing in the real life origin being referred too.

The thing is questions like "Why can't Keiichi preform all those cool magic trics given belldandy can teach him!" is answered.

Assuming the manga creator had not have a PHd in physics we cannot rely strictly on the manga to comment on string theory.

Skuld is at least a 10 dimentional being given she can build things that are 10 dimentional (Lord of Terror arc)

Also as far as string theory is conerned us humans can only "see" or "manupilate" 3D, we cannot visualise or manupliate anything 4D and people trying to visualise 4D are generally nutz or about to be nutz. :P However all objects occupy the 11 dimentional space. A 2 dimentional being can only see a 3d beings intersection with its plane.

The beulty of this is if you think in accordance with string theory you can interprete belldandys words as: While Keiichi only sees her as a 3 dimentional being, her true form (which we cant also see as we are 3d too) is much different.

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 15:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

You see... this is my point. We CAN see and manipulate the other dimensions. Of course, we can't do it without our bear hands, but with machines we can. A super collider is a "3D" (for the sake of argument here; it’s really a 10D object), yet it can manipulate and effect "10D" under certain conditions with "detectable" effects - hence the theoretical experiments. If what Belldandy and the other goddesses use to do everything is purely uber advanced technology or innate magic ability has not yet been answered - perhaps its a mix of both - and sometimes what has been revealed has contradicted itself. Irregardless, I would not argue if Belldandy and gang have more than 10 dimensions - extra dimensional beings would and are supported by current String theories. HOWEVER: things in our Universe are 10 or 11 already. Goddesses and Demons are more (as said in the manga). But their exact number has never been revealed. It is not canon to claim their "only" 10D and Keiichi is "only" 3D, and its inherently false. Think of it this way: If our Universe was only 9D (or a lesser number), it wouldn't exist as it does. It is 10D/11D: along with everything we've observed so far. Now if there are objects less than 10D/11D, I don't doubt it... but everything so far seen somehow correlates to the established number (be it particle, wave, etc).

Hmm.. In that case we can suggest they are at least ten dimentional. Ill let yu handle this one since you seem to know what you are doing. The dimention refers to what the character in question can manupilate with bear hands.

Also manga is a poor way to learn quantum mechanics. No need to overthink yourself...

--Cool Cat^Talk|@ 03:26, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll read through the manga one last time to be sure, but I believe what we're looking for is Brane vice Dimension. However, the issue is that Belldandy herself uses the term "dimension" - so in canon their multidimensional. But I believe what Fujishima wanted was "higher" brane. Current thinking says our Universe is made of 5 branes, however, the math claims there can be up to 8 or 9 without being impossible. In that sense, it could be said that mortals are "5 branes" and goddesses/demons are "8 branes" (it would seem prudent to save the highest of 9 for overdeities like Kamisama and Hild). I won't change anything without getting everyone's approval on it so I'll see what I can come up with that will be satisfactory...

Okay... after a bit of thought, here’s my proposal:

The dimensional number assigned to the goddesses and demons is changed to 8th and the mortals are reassigned to 5th. To help justify and explain this, I’d wikify the number to link with the Brane article.

The five branes in our Universe are the individual "X" "Y" and "Z" axis’s, time, and all the remaining 6 – 7 being clumped together in a single compact dimension (using Kaluza-Klein theories). However, our Universe is "contained" within a much higher brane (normally called, the bulk). The exact number of branes in this "higher dimension" is somewhere around 8 or 9.

This being established, it would be safe to say Yggdrasil maintains this bulk and everything within it. To operate such a "high dimensional" object, the goddesses/demons would have to be at that same brane level – hence their higher number to mortals. It would stay in keeping with what Belldandy meant – as well as how Fujishima seemingly wants to maintain things.

Kamisama and Hild would arguably be 9th branes, given how they are supposedly on a "higher level" than the typical goddesses and demons.

This is being very confusing. I think you are pushing your views in physics rather than anything remotely related to the anime/manga. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 12:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

My view in physics is actually the standardized M-Theory, so I would argue that it's the "accepted" view, but you're probably right about making it too confusing. In all honestly, the suggestion above kinda stretches the acceptable science anyways... I would then propose simply removing the whole dimension thing from the character articles, for the sake that its inherently incorrect, unless a more viable medium can be reached. You can't really say Belldandy and gang are 11+ or something, because it still doesn't correspond to the whole String Theory (11 dimensions is the max)...

Yes, and I share your views on the string theory, I was being blunt with my words though for a reason. Actual physics and anime physics do not have to work the same way. ^-^'

Skuld is at least a 10 dimentional being. Thats cannon. String Theory has nothing to do with Oh My Goddess!. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 15:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

^_^

I suppose I'm going a bit too in-depth with the whole matter... I'm just going to have to lump "AMG Science" in the same category as "Star Trek Science". ^_-

Infoboxes

Ok since everyone wants do do their own thing on infoboxes I am serriously considering deleting all infoboxes from all Oh My Goddess articles.

I seeked factual acuracy away from fannon and all I got was peoplestarting to complain about everything presented.

I do not have the lifespan to deal with you complaining about everything. First you complain about gender, then age, then dimention, whats next?. Geez.

All of you are seriously anoying me, hence I am abandoning anything that has to do with Oh My Goddess! aside from uploading pictures. You do your own thing and monopolise articles ok? I had enough of this nonsense. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 16:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

While at it, why not delete all info regarding oh my goddess from wikipedia completely? --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 16:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Take it easy. We just have to make some kind of "common ground" here. The info boxes are cool, and I really like them, but its just when we start getting "detailed" with AMG, its going to cause a stir as people sort through what's canon, fanon, and everything between. Patience... take a look at the Star Wars articles. Some of them have been in "debate" for months (and some topics for years before Wikipedia existed). ^_^;

Of course, people shouldn't just change things without having everyone agree on it first. I may not think a certain part is right, but I won't change it without getting everyone (or at least the majority) to agree with me. ^_-

Ya know, I think I have a solution to all this. Looking over the Japanese version of the series, I noticed they don't use anything that's not 100% canon. I went over to the Star Wars articles, and learned that they have some sort of "Holocron" rating system that defines what's official and what's not. Whatever isn't, they just don't use, reguardless of how much "sense" it makes (mostly because anything else causes too much of a debate). Keep the boxes, but remove anything that can be challenged (i.e. not clear cut, unarguable information). If anything, it would keep the matter NPOV for the most part.

I am just burnt out from people constantly chalenging everything instead of writing actual articles. Most character pages are pathetic stubz... :( --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 00:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Has there been any thought to changing the Template:Oh My Goddess Infobox-Generic on this page to one of the standardized animanga infoboxes? While I don't think these should replace the custom OMG infoboxes on the satellite pages, I think at the very least it should be placed here on the root entry for the series, as a sort of signpost to the different story vehicles. --Billdorr 09:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind that but OMG is 1 manga + 3 anime + 1 movie. which makes the info box collossal. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 16:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I put one up at User:Billdorr/sub1 using the picture on this page and it doesn't look too big. It's no bigger than the one at Sailor Moon is. --Billdorr 23:14, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I ment infobox will be huge but looks fine. My analysis was premature... --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 07:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)