Talk:Omar Suleiman (politician)

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Neutrality[edit]

Very poor article, obviously written with significant bias towards the man. A more balanced wiki needs to be written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.52.113.82 (talk) 09:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you perceive a problem, anyone can edit--76.214.104.173 (talk) 17:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The first Vice President in 29 years[edit]

Clearly, he's now a candidate to succeed Hosni.Ericl (talk) 16:07, 29 January 2011 (UTC) Why is there no mention that the "intelligence" agency that Suleiman directed was used in "extraordinary rendition" (torture) of detainees captured by the U.S.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jabam (talk • contribs) 05:51, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"an unelected Egyptian politician"[edit]

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a contentious propaganda site. This should be a balanced article, and the most prominent aspect of the individual should be fronted in the lead. I.e., vice-president should come first, 'unelected' should be removed.Haberstr (talk) 17:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete paragraph 2 of lead?[edit]

What do people think? To where in the article should it be moved?Haberstr (talk) 17:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good thought. I say move it to "Perceptions" section. Sometimes people create a "Controversies" section for this kind of situation. -- Econterms (talk) 18:36, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i disagree. keep it because it outlines vital descriptions of Omar Suleiman that should not be removed and that have defined his own standing. (talk

The material is directly relevant to his notability, so summarized but by no means removed.--76.214.104.173 (talk) 02:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC) bbbb[reply]

Israeli perception of Suleiman[edit]

This is already being conveyed under the Middle East section, and it isn't notable enough to warrant its own entire section. If there is material that someone wants to be included, make an effort to integrate it with material that is already there. Whether you remove other material, one paragraph should be enough to summarize a single country's view.--76.214.104.173 (talk) 03:01, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A collection of cables from WikiLeak[edit]

Have a look -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:03, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On Suleiman as the US government’s point-man when it comes to Egyptian Guantanemo Bay detainees, State department cable 05CAiro5924, from 2005

…the most effective conduit for addressing this issue is through Cairo Station – EGIS Liaison. The written assurances (reftel) were passed directly from EGIS Chief General SOLIMAN through this channel. General SOLIMAN’s stature and power in the Egyptian establishment, and his history of close cooperation with the USG on counterterrorism, corroborate the Egyptian intent take responsibility for the detainees in such a way that protects both U.S. and Egyptian security interests. In addition to the written assurances regarding the detainees treatment, EGIS has conveyed orally to Cairo station that all three will be taken into custody upon arrival in Egypt and will be investigated and prosecuted in accordance with Egyptian law.

State department cable 06CAIRO2933, ”Scenesetter for Deputy Secretary Zoellick’s Visit to Egypt,” from 2006

This spring has seen ample evidence that the regime’s domestic house is not in order. Whatever this says about backsliding or latent repression, the real story here is a vacuum of leadership on domestic policy. The aging Mubarak simply does not have a domestic counterpart to the formidable Omar Soliman, his consigliere on foreign policy matters. In earlier days, Mubarak would have bargained his way out of these messes. But PM Nazif lacks the common touch and Gamal Mubarak has not stepped up to the role. This leaves the field open to the heavy handed tactics of the old guard. The litany of mis-steps follows: – Judicial disciplinary action against two senior judges who charged fraud in the parliamentary polls; – Suppression of activists and demonstrators supporting the judges, particularly on, but not limited to, May 11; – State-influenced media attacks on reform advocates; – Extension of the Emergency Law for two more years; – Postponement by two years of local council elections; – Continuing arrests and harassment of opposition activists; – The conviction of opposition leader Ayman Nour.

State Department cable 07CAIRO1417, “Presidential Succession in Egypt,” from 2007

Presidential succession is the elephant in the room of Egyptian politics. Despite incessant whispered discussions, no one in Egypt has any certainty about who will succeed mubarak, or how the succession will happen. Mubarak himself seems to be trusting to god and the inertia of the military and civilian security services to ensure an orderly transition. In the current political framework, the most likely contenders are presidential son gamal mubarak (whose profile is ever-increasing at the ruling national democratic party), egis chief omar soliman, dark horse arab league secretary general amre moussa, or an as-yet unknown military officer…

Egyptian intelligence chief and Mubarak consigliere, in past years Soliman was often cited as likely to be named to the long-vacant vice-presidential post. In the past two years, Soliman has stepped out of the shadows, and allowed himself to be photographed, and his meetings with foreign leaders reported. Many of our contacts believe that Soliman, because of his military background, would at the least have to figure in any succession scenario for Gamal, possibly as a transitional figure. Soliman himself adamantly denies any personal ambitions, but his interest and dedication to national service is obvious. His loyalty to Mubarak seems rock-solid. At age 71, he could be attractive to the ruling apparatus and the public at large as a reliable figure unlikely to harbor ambitions for another multi-decade presidency. A key unanswered question is how he would respond to a gamal presidency once Mubarak is dead. An alleged personal friend of Soliman tells us that Soliman “detests” the idea of Gamal as president, and that he also was “deeply personally hurt” by Mubarak, who promised to name him vice-president several years ago, but then reneged.

State Department cable 09CAIRO746, “Admiral Mullen’s Meeting with EGIS Chief Soliman,” from 2009

During an April 21 meeting with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Michael Mullen, Egyptian General Intelligence Service Chief Omar Soliman explained that his overarching regional goal was combating radicalism, especially in Gaza, Iran, and Sudan…On Gaza, Soliman said Egypt must “confront” Iranian attempts to smuggle arms to Gaza and “stop” arms smuggling through Egyptian territory… Soliman shared his vision on Palestinian reconciliation and bringing the Palestinian Authority back to Gaza, saying “a Gaza in the hands of radicals will never be calm.”… On Iran, Soliman said Egypt was “succeeding” in preventing Iran from funneling financial support to Hamas through Egypt. Soliman hoped that the U.S. could encourage Iran to abandon its nuclear ambitions and stop interfering in regional affairs, but cautioned that Iran “must pay a price” for its actions… Egypt is “very concerned” with stability in Sudan, Soliman said, and was focusing efforts on convincing the Chadean and Sudanese presidents to stop supporting each others’ insurgencies, supporting negotiations between factions in Darfur, and implementing the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA). “Egypt does not want a divided Sudan,” Soliman stressed.

From 09CAIRO874, “Scenesetter
President Mubarak’s Visit,” from 2009:

EGIS Chief Omar Soliman and Interior Minister al-Adly keep the domestic beasts at bay, and Mubarak is not one to lose sleep over their tactics.

27.09.2005: AMB. JONES´ 9/26 MEETING WITH ISRAELI MOD´S GILAD FOCUSES ON EGYPT, GAZA, HAMAS ACTIVITY AND PA ELECTIONS

27.09.2005
AMB. JONES´ 9/26 MEETING WITH ISRAELI MOD´S GILAD FOCUSES ON EGYPT, GAZA, HAMAS ACTIVITY AND PA ELECTIONS

Gilad said he warned Suleiman that if Hamas participates in the January 2006 Palestinian elections "it will destroy everything, as Hamas will take over and start a new process." According to Gilad, Suleiman and his deputy told him, "There will be no elections in January. We will take care of it." Gilad requested that the USG closely hold this information and strictly protect the sources. He clarified that neither Suleiman nor his deputy explained how Egypt would stop the elections or elaborated further on the subject. Gilad admitted that he does not know how the Egyptians could prevent the elections from taking place, but said, "The only people the Palestinians can trust now are the Egyptians."

Gilad said he conveyed to Egyptian Intelligence Chief Omar Suleiman that Israel could allow the Rafah passage to open after six months. Suleiman reportedly conveyed Egypt´s preference for opening after four months -- in mid-January before the Palestinian elections and the Haj. Gilad praised the Egyptians for responding quickly to Israeli calls to stop the flow of human traffic along the Egypt-Gaza border, noting that it took the Egyptians only 30 minutes to respond to Israel´s request to seal the border on Friday, September 23. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.214.104.173 (talk) 02:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's sources describing some of these:

He is still the vice president[edit]

Please stop saying that he left office today. Suleiman has not yet officially left the office of the vice president of egypt. Until there is official word, he is for all intents and purposes the incumbent, even if he is currently powerless. WaffleStomp (talk) 01:13, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree to WaffleStomp. Is there an official announcement or article that claims Suleiman dismissed vice president of egypt? --高木あゆみ (talk) 14:55, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No there is no claim or anything he's still the vice president. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaffleStomp (talk • contribs) 16:20, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Leadership of the country[edit]

The Egyptian government released this statement, Egypt State Information Service: Statement of the Vice President of the Republic:

Citizens,

In these difficult times President Mohamed Hosni Mubarak has decided to relinquish the presidency of the Republic, and charged the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces with the governance of the nation.

Peace Be Upon You and God’s Mercy and Blessings.

--76.214.104.173 (talk) 16:26, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You may wish to see Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, as well as Supreme Constitutional Court, Farouk Sultan.
This text refer to only Mubarak, not Suleiman. There are a lot of article that says "Vice President Omar Suleiman"... Suleiman dismissed vice president of egypt in 11 February, is that true? Unsourced information must be confirm or delete.--高木あゆみ (talk) 16:35, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Omar Suleiman, vice-president and former intelligence chief, is among the key retired or serving military officers on the council.--76.214.104.173 (talk) 16:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We want objective evidence, not your selfish interpretation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 高木あゆみ (talk • contribs) 16:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He is the vice president still. He did not officially resign. Please stop editing it or we will have to get an admin in here to lock this article. WaffleStomp (talk) 16:46, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Arabic Wikipedia says he held the post of Vice President until February 11 and cites this article from BBC Arabic. Al-Ahram, Arab News, EuroNews, and Iowa Press-Citizen are all calling him the former Vice-President.

Ultimately, the last Egyptian Constitution stipulates the speaker of Parliament, the chief justice of the Supreme Constitutional Courtor the vice president is to take over as the interim head of state. None of these cases are being exercised, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, as well as Supreme Constitutional Court, Farouk Sultan are running the country. Omar Suleiman's power now stems from his membership on the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces.--76.214.104.173 (talk) 19:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Egypt's State Information Service refers to him as "Former Vice President Omar Suleiman" [1].  Cs32en Talk to me  21:14, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's about as biased of a foreign source as I can think of :)--76.214.104.173 (talk) 21:18, 12 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your information. But... both article from BBC and SIS do not refer to the date of term end of Suleiman, I think; BBC's article was last updated in 29 January 2011. Is there any articles that shows Suleiman's term end? --高木あゆみ (talk) 00:08, 13 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Various changes[edit]

Can someone fact-check these September 2021 edits by Abdelhamid Hamdy? I don't have the time. They could be right, but the edits add some stuff that I'd hope would have a source. Enterprisey (talk!) 05:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 March 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. After further considerations/inputs after relisting, there is no primary topic identifiable at the moment. – robertsky (talk) 13:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Omar Suleiman (politician) → Omar Suleiman – Clearly the main topic, longtime intelligence chief of Egypt and strongman of Mubarak regime. The other names in the disambiguation page dwarf in comparison; one activist with, if at all, only local significance, one wedding singer who got Youtube viral once and that's it, and some young entrepreneur, the redirect views show that no one is looking for his page, but are looking for the Egyptian Suleiman (1 vs 2). Plus the Egyptian Suleiman's page is more interlinked and crossreferenced within Wikipedia, further indicating the topic is much more significant than the others. (8 Wikipedia links for the entrepreneur and 299 for the Egyptian intelligience chief. (50, 78 for the two others with signs of the plague of paid editing for the activist to exaggerate significance, e.g. even linked by the page 1986 in the United States and LeBron James!) Absolutely do not understand how this was moved in the first place and passed as an uncontroversial move / technical request. This is the Omar Suleiman 99% of people would be looking to learn about. A note at the top of the page for other uses of Omar Suleiman amply fulfills the purpose of distinguishing. Yabroq (talk) 03:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)— Relisting. microbiologyMarcus [petri dish·growths] 23:18, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - with politics being more of a dominant feature in news around the world than the professions listed on the other article, this page should be at base with the existing hatnote remaining at the top. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 17:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move: the results from WikiNav show that the imam/activist is the article sought by over 70% of the readers who leave the disambiguation page. If there is a primary topic, it is probably him. It certainly does not appear to be the politician, even if he is a more important person in the long-term view of things. Today's reader appears to be more likely to be looking for the imam/activist, and that is what influences our decisions about disambiguation and primary topics. PamD 18:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the wikinav results are persuasive. -- asilvering (talk) 05:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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