Talk:Orania

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Orania article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 90 days

Orania was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (April 10, 2019). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Twofingered Typist, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 25 April 2018.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

South Africa Mid‑importance

	South Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of South Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject South AfricaTemplate:WikiProject South AfricaSouth Africa articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Cooperatives (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cooperatives, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.CooperativesWikipedia:WikiProject CooperativesTemplate:WikiProject CooperativesCooperatives articles

Urban studies and planning Low‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Urban studies and planning, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Urban studies and planning on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Urban studies and planningWikipedia:WikiProject Urban studies and planningTemplate:WikiProject Urban studies and planningUrban studies and planning articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Lead[edit]

@SONORAMA: The claim you've removed is supported by a reliable source: the Guardian. Also, its one of the only mentions in the lead at the moment of the key fact that this town is not generally open to black folks. There is no reason to doubt that, given how many sources describe this town as for whites only. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 17:08, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add that the Gaurdian merely states that black folks fear they'll be met with violence, not that they have. As the American phenomena of Sundown towns shows, intimidation alone is enough to keep towns all-white. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 17:13, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello User:CaptainEek. The quote in question is: "Although Orania, in accordance with South Africa's constitution, has no formal law banning black visitors, in practice only Afrikaner residents are permitted; black people nearby fear they will be met with violence if they were to visit." My italics added. The text confuses visitors (of which there are lots of examples of non-whites visiting Orania) with residents (Orania currently has no non-white residents). I'd suggest making it clear that people of all races can and do visit Orania, but at present only white Afrikaners live there. I further suggest that this kind of down-in-the-weeds about outsiders perceptions of being met with violence versus the reality that they aren't might best be placed in the section on external reception, rather than in the lead. For that matter, there is simply no indication that Orania uses intimidation to keep people out; to the contrary, they seem eager to welcome visitors, although residency is restricted to Afrikaners who share their values. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SONORAMA (talk • contribs) 19:50, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Having just sat down and reworked the lead, I'm fine with leaving that bit out now. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 20:36, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that English-speaking whites aren't allowed to live in Orania either is probably how they get away with their exclusive policies without being considered "racist." TOttenville8 (talk) 17:00, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

They are considered racist widely around south africa 165.0.2.153 (talk) 21:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are actually english speaking people on the town. I met a few Rhodesians and a scotsman. The town officials said that both Scots and Rhodesian cultures are close enough to Afrikaans culture and that they share a history. Personally the mental gymnastics these Oraniers are pulling is quite off pitting. 196.210.58.144 (talk) 06:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the name of this article be changed ...[edit]

... to Orania, South Africa? TOttenville8 (talk) 16:27, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That will not be necessary. There is no other known towns or cities in the world named 'Orania'. - Hu753 (talk) 01:18, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. since it’s not recognized as it’s own nation by any other nation, it seems like political commitments would cause one to oppose this 2600:1700:3041:2FC0:7DE6:83FD:40F1:E166 (talk) 03:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, it'd be unnecessary disambiguation. We don't put Child Okeford, United Kingdom or Cuiabá, Brazil - if people are searching for Orania, they will only mean the South African settlement as there is no other Orania. Couruu (talk) 16:08, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First sentence of the lead[edit]

A 2022 RFC determined that the first sentence of the lead should read a white separatist town founded by Afrikaners. Changing it from that would require another RFC (which I think would be unlikely to produce a different result, since that description is extensively sourced to high-quality sources.) --Aquillion (talk) 01:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that both options are fine. "White separatist" and "Afrikaner nationalist/only" are both technically correct as far as I can tell Chujovas (talk) 22:42, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]