Talk:Organization XIII/Archive 3

Ultimania translations!

*dies* ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 08:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Er, no, it's just Aerial Blades. It's the katakana エ e, not the kanji 工 kō. I know it's difficult to tell. urutapu 22:44, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

-_- ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 01:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I just made some corrections, don't pay any mind...—ウルタプ 21:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a Wikipedia login at the moment, but I just have two cents to add to this really quickly... If you have the names spelled out as they are in the Japanese version, wouldn't make sense to include their Japanese titles alongside their English ones? Some people prefer to use the Japanese ones and used Wikipedia as a resource for that until it was changed to suit the English version. - Anonymous

Eh, that just feels really fancrufty to me, but I wouldn't revert if someone did so. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 14:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey um, I'm sorry, but Larxene uses Kunais. Same difference, I know, but I just wanna get that name right. Oh, and Zexion controls the Creeper Nobodies and has a dagger. If I get these wrong don't flame me plz. -Khfreak

Uh, no. Larxene uses knives. The English word "knife" (katakana naifu) is explicitly used. And Zexion has no confirmed weapon or personal Nobody.—ウルタプ 21:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Arrogant i see. Well, your wrong, and khfreaks right. Theyre Kunais. Ive played the game, and ive seen Larxene and how she uses her kunais, she throws them, now tell me, do people throw knive? No, they shank people with them, also, you can clearly see that theyre shaped liked kunais, and she holds them in btween her fingers, just like you would with kunais, not knives, also, a kunai, in fact, is a kind of knife , relly, since theyre called "kunai knifes", but the point is theyre kunais, and you cant argue with that, even though the word "knife" is used, like i said, a kunais a kind of knife, end of story.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Theomnipresentone (talk • contribs)

Um. The point isn't whether they're actually kunai or not, it's being consistent with the official term…which is "knife"…—ウルタプ 05:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm really confused on one point. While there is some sense in the idea that Roxas controls the element of light (Being Sora's nobody and all) why then does DiZ, among others, continuously say that he is (these quotes are off the top of my head so excuse me if i make some mistakes, sorry) "of the darkness", "[a] reside[nt of] darkness", etc. and that Riku needed to be able to fight in darkness, which Roxas logically would be able to do. I have never seen this information elsewhere but I feel that it is in all likelihood accurate. Despite that I am still confused and if anyone has a solid explaination for this It would be appreciated. (Please do not confuse this with an invitation for fan theory) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blademaster (talk • contribs)

I don't seem to remember DiZ saying anything like that, though I haven't played the game for a while. Since he is a Nobody, it wouldn't make sense for him to be a resident of darkness because Nobodies are neither light nor dark. And DiZ said he was a special case anyway. Axem Titanium 20:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm aware of the oddity of DiZ's statement, that's why I thought Roxas must have been the Dark element member of Organization XIII. I'm also quite sure that DiZ makes mention of it on the sixth day after the fight with Axel. If Roxas is the light weilding member DiZ's statements make even less sense. Anybody think they understand this?

When they say that Roxas' element is light, they mean light in the conventional sense, not in the Kingdom Hearts sense (i.e. it is a difference between "light," created by photons, and "Light," the elemental force of good in the KH universe). While they do try to make a metaphorical connection between the two definitions, it is not meant to be interpreted as Roxas belonging in the realm of Light. 129.59.96.234 02:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I know Zexion's element/weapon/nobody has been discussed, but by listing all the nobodies in the game, shouldnt Zexion's specific nobody be able to be found through the process of elmination?

What about the other members that died at Castle Oblivion, then, hmm?—ウルタプ 22:45, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It's not as simple as that. As in KHCOM we do not know what nobodies are controled by whom. If memory serves me well, you only enocuter two types of minor nobody i think...Maluxia's "Spectre Nobody" <Not official name> and Dusks. Also, even if you did go through each and every minor nobody, there must be at least twenty or more differing types in KH2 --User:Sin-fuelled

Nobody Gummi Ships

Why was the list of gummi ships removed?

I got the Floating Mine Gummi Ships form the Official Strategy guide DONT REMOVE IT ANYMORE. -User:Oblivion111

Which strategy guide? A lot of strategy guides go around calling themselves "official" as a marketing ploy so the source of your information is questionable. Axem Titanium 04:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The Bradygames one. User:Oblivion111

Care to note what page? I see "Bomb Bell", "Bomber", "Cyyclops", "Gatling Ship", "Grappler", Knight Head", Mega Tank, "Mystic Fever", "Phoenix", "Ring Tank", "Shield", "Speeder", "Spider", "Spiked Roller", "Tank", "U.F.O.", "Core", "Cruiser", "Mad Rider", and "Mini Cruiser". Most, if any, of them don't even fall under the description of "floating mine", so I don't why you're this intent on promoting a bizarre name. Interrobamf 20:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Check on the Xemnas Boss Page! User:Oblivion111

Bradygames can hardly call itself "official". Its strategy guides are riddled with typos and FACTUAL ERRORS in an effort to have it out on the same day as the game's release. Besides, it is in no way related to Square Enix. In this case the only official source would be the Kingdom Hearts II Ultimania book. Axem Titanium 21:59, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

How dare you?! Hayner is a Nobody! =) Interrobamf 00:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Roxas and his memory

It says that Roxas lost his memory because of Sora's being a heartless for too short of time, this is an error. Diz mentions at some point (I don't remember, but it was in the three hour introduction.), that he didn't remember a thing because Sora lost his memories also. This also explains why he remembers things as Sora remembers them. Just thought I would give my two cents. :D

Secret Ansem Reports. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 02:45, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

because of his significent role would it be a good idea to give Roxas his own article.

To put it bluntly, NO. And don't try to create one, either. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 06:48, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Couple Things...

Where is it mentioned that Nobodies are born in Twilight Town? As I recall, Ansem's Secret Reports aimed said they 'slipped into darkness' or some such thing. Also, it was mentioned by Ansem that the stongest Nobodies, the Organization members, were created because they gave their hearts up willingly.

Finally... I would add that calling 'moon' an element is a little odd. Saying he derives power from the moon both sounds better and remains entirely accurate. Matter of phraseology, not speculation. Similar bit with Marluxia and flowers. Seriously, say it to yourself, the 'element of flower.' Jachra 05:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Secret Ansem Report 7. Should be something like "When beings without hearts, "Heartless", are born, the remaining soul and body are born in [Twilight Town] as a different existence." I don't see where it states that humanoid Nobodies are created by the willful giving-up of hearts. Yen Sid clearly states the strong heart thing. As for elements, I'm not sure why "element of water" or "element of wind" is any more ridiculous. They're all minor after-effects of more fundamental forces, and to state wind as a "element" is compeltely silly using current science's way of thinking. The only reason it seems more acceptable is the fact that it's been considered a element since Greek times and seems more fundamental than flower. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 07:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, thank you, I looked it up myself afterwards, they are indeed born in Twilight Town's world. As for the willing giving up bit, it was a mistaken combination of things I read in 5 and 10. Apparently, giving up your heart willingly only creates a Heartless with self-will, mentioned in section 10, I mis-remembered this as Nobody. As for elements...the elements of Water and Wind comes directly from Greek mythology, and, from a primitive perspective, makes a modicrum of sense. To a society without a background in science like ours, it can very well seem that all things are composed of (thus the word 'element,' by which they mean the elementary composition of existence) wind, earth, fire, and water. To this I add that the Chinese arrived at the same erroneous conclusion seperately from the Greeks (possibly including Wood, which may indeed give you your justification, but I have no evidence they believed this was an element.) Are you trying to suggest that the moon and flowers are elementary compositions in Kingdom Hearts? We grew up with the notion of Earth Water Fire Air in video games; silly as it is, it has a strong history behind it in both mythology and video games. Jachra 23:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Course, I see that it will go on regardless of what I have to say...but, then, anime has always been full of oddities like that. A few more won't be noticed. Jachra 07:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I beleive the report says "this world" and not Twilight Town specifically. He could be just refering to the Realm of Light. He oftens refers to it as one world. --The Crowing 01:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Then why not say "this realm"? Ansem the Wise later states that Roxas was born in Twilight Town, further evidence for "thisworld" meaning Twilight Town. Twilight Town stays. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 01:57, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

"I am but a servant to the world." I doubt he was talking about Twilight Town specifically then. And why even mention Roxas being born in Twilight Town if all of them were born there?--The Crowing 19:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I dunno. Maybe because Roxas and Naminé were the only two humanoid Nobodies he was able to do significant research on?—urutapu 22:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

"and her body which should have disappeared remained in the world of light." This signifies that the body that becomes a Nobody leaves the realm of light. So most Nobodies would not be born in Twilight Town.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.249.189.6 (talk • contribs)

...I'm pretty sure Twilight Town ISN'T part of the realm of light...—ウルタプ 20:39, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Twilight Town is between light and darkness. Not between the two realms. It's similar to Traverse Town; the dark corridor is very unstable, often opening up. Which would be a good reason why Roxas ended up there after his birth was interuppted.--The Crowing 22:08, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that it technically means that nobodies are born in worlds that lie between light and dark. Twilight Town being one such world many nobodies, including Roxas, were born here.

Then the Twilight Town line should be removed, not all Nobodies are born there.

Still seems odd to me, that people in a world where many Nobodies are born react to them with surprise and fear.--The Crowing 23:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

To be quite blunt, you opinion or observations aren't worth a damn. Ansem states "this world", having mentioned Twilght Town before. We're sticking to what the game clearly states. End of story. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 10:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

He calls the realm of light in general "this world" all the fucking time. Want me to find some exaples? "-the infamous "Keyblade" said to bring both chaos and prosperity to the world" I doubt he litterally means Radiant Garden. "I uncovered a "corridor of darkness" that connects the realm of nothing ness to the outside world" "Indeed, this world is still in danger." Not refering to a specific world in this.

And, when describing Nobodies; "When a Heartless is born, these entities disappear from the realm of light, to be reborn as entirely new beings in a completly different realm."

It's an innaccurate line; not all of them are born in Twilight Town. --The Crowing 20:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

• Then where else are they born? -- SFH 23:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Twilight Town is not the only world between the light and the dark. And the way Ansem comments on how Roxas was born in Twilight Town makes it seems as though not all of them were. If all Nobodies were born in Twilight Town, then why bother mentioning that it was where Roxas was born? --4.249.147.43 21:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• That still doesn't answer my question. -- SFH 22:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know specifically. Traverse Town, Castle Oblivion, edges of realm of darkness?--4.249.150.248 23:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

• So you know they exist, you just don't know where…That just opens a number of new questions.-- SFH 01:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

They do not all appear in Twilight Town, I believe. They appear in some world in the realm between dark and light. Twilight Town just happens to be one of them, where Roxas happened to be. It doesn't mean they all appear there.--69.111.121.190 06:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought Nobodies were born in the realm of Twilight not Twilight Town

You should include the fact that it said that nobodies have slight appearence changes i.e:xemnas hair, or roxas' hair

Roxas & Sora

There is no proof that Roxas did merge with Sora at the end of the introduction, the last time he's on screen is when he's looking at Sora's pod in the simulation. When he battles the organization members they refer to roxas as seperate but connected to Sora. "HE used to look at me the exact same way"- Xigbar. Roxas is mentioned as seperate until he fights Sora on The World That Never Was. During the fight he says "Tell me why he picked you". You not us. Roxas is still seperate during the fight clip as well. If you watch it closley time freezes for Donald, goofy and the nobodies before Roxas appears. The reason they say that they didnt see Roxas was because Sora disappeared before he appeared. Summation: Roxas is seperate until he loses to Sora in battle. -- Paul@wiki june 30 00:05

No, he does. That's the whole point of what DiZ and Riku were trying to do. They were trying to get Sora and Roxas to merge so Sora could wake up, and that's what he did. And where do you expect Roxas went? Did he just fall into a plot hole until the end of the game? The Magnificent, Fantastic, Splendiferous Gegiford 15:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, just wow. Did you miss all the clear indications that the two were merged? Sora sheds a tear saying good bye to Roxas' friends even though he only knew them for the most of five minutes. Saïx goes "BTW axel wants to turn ya into a <3less!!!" Hell, you completely ignore Axel's part in this game. ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 01:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow yourself, did you somehow ignore that Axel has two scenes in the game where he and Sora are in the same room. Sora crying could just as easily have been because Hayner & co reminded him of himself, riku and kairi.If you don't agree with that then it could have been because Sora and Roxas are connected and he cried because he instinctivley knew Roxas cared for them, just like he just knew when he saw the photo tha.t his name was Roxas Going back to Axel he wanted to turn Sora into a heartless TO PREVENT Sora and Roxas merging. For the plot hole comment considering how many unanswered questions crop up in the kingdom hearts series particularly in II it's easily within the realm of probability. I refer you to exactly why Kairi has a keyblade? Next, during the fight he says "Tell me why he picked you". Unless roxas went on a seperate trip after the intro ended there is no candidate to be "him". It couldnt be Diz he would have picked Sora because of his well known dislike for nobodies and he knew Roxas wouldnt fight the organization for him.Its not Xemnas because he knew Sora would oppose him and organization 13. Since all candidates in all 3 games have been ruled out that leaves only an unknown third party. Since this party isn't revealed in the game it must have been somebody roxas met or heard of after he left the simulated Twilight Town. After the first round of the last battle is over then we actualy see Roxas combine with Sora completely. Also Demyx in the underworld says "Roxas,come back to us". If Roxas had merged with Sora im pretty sure he wouldn't just be able to split and re join Org. 13 of his own volition. It only makes sense if he was using Sora to talk to Roxas elsewhere because they're connected. And as icing on the cake right before he fights Roxas Donald & Goofy are threatened by Samurai Nobodis the very kind Roxas controlled. He was using the nobodies to distract Donald & Goofy so hee could fight Sora uninterrupted. Plus those nobodies appeared in the Dark City area where only Heartless appear so Roxas must have brought the nobodies he controls with him. Unless Sora was able to control Roxas's Nobodies and i missed it that seems a little odd doesn't it?- paul@wiki

You're not thinking. Your Demyx arguement: If Roxas hadn't fused with Sora, what the hell was the point of Demyx telling Sora to come back to him? And pretty much everything else is random speculation. Sora and Roxas fused after the intro to the game; there's no arguement otherwise. The Splendiferous Gegiford 16:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

See thats interesting. I didnt know on talk pages rather than just adressing a point you could just dismiss it as speculation. Now that i am aware of this please allow me to dismiss you're argument as speculation since i don't see Roxas merge with Sora rather than putting together a complex argument based on EVIDENCE and LOGIC (see above).- The Splendiferous Gegifordapprentice 00:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)- paul@wiki

Oh, that's logic? Funny, I thought it was bullshit. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

went? Did he just fall into a plot hole until the end of the game? The Magnificent, Fantastic, Splendiferous Gegiford 15:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, just wow. Did you miss all the clear indications that the two were merged? Sora sheds a tear saying good bye to Roxas' friends even though he only knew them for the most of five minutes. Saïx goes "BTW axel wants to turn ya into a <3less!!!" Hell, you completely ignore Axel's part in this game. ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 01:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

1.Sora crying could just as easily have been because Hayner & co reminded him of himself, riku and kairi.If you don't agree with that then it could have been because Sora and Roxas are connected and he cried because he instinctivley knew Roxas cared for them, just like he just knew when he saw the photo that his name was Roxas.

Highly unlikely. These are all just hints of how Roxas is effecting Sora from within him, but you just completely misinterpreted it. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Barring the highly debateable proof you've already mentioned do you have any proof that you're right?-paul@wiki

2.Going back to Axel he wanted to turn Sora into a heartless TO PREVENT Sora and Roxas merging. Wow yourself, did you somehow ignore that Axel has two scenes in the game where he and Sora are in the same room.

Again, zero sense. The arguement of "Axel is in the same room as Sora" doesn't make any sense. Yes, Axel and Sora exist in the same plane of existence. Yippidy doo! The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Admittidly this was more of personal retort than an actual point-paul@wiki

3.For the plot hole comment considering how many unanswered questions crop up in the kingdom hearts series particularly in II it's easily within the realm of probability. I refer you to exactly why Kairi has a keyblade?

Then you tell me where he went. Tell me where Roxas went after DiZ had Roxas right where he wanted him, ready to fuse with Sora and after Roxas says "Looks like my summer vacation's over", and then later appears in a big void of nothingness, says "Sora!", and is enveloped in light. Oh, I know! He got rescued by Superman! You seem to have payed no attention whatsoever to the first portion of the game. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Multiple characters only appear in a handful of scenes the only real exceptions are Sora, Donald & Goofy. Why you say :IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE THE PROTAGONISTS. Also refering to point 4 Roxas could have gone off and found the unknown party he referenced in that clip.

4.Next, during the fight he says "Tell me why he picked you". Unless roxas went on a seperate trip after the intro ended there is no candidate to be "him". It couldnt be Diz he would have picked Sora because of his well known dislike for nobodies and he knew Roxas wouldnt fight the organization for him.Its not Xemnas because he knew Sora would oppose him and organization 13. Since all candidates in all 3 games have been ruled out that leaves only an unknown third party. Since this party isn't revealed in the game it must have been somebody roxas met or heard of after he left the simulated Twilight Town.

That entire scene is ambiguous. You're just overanalyzing it. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Going into detail is not overanalyzing.Once more saying that does not adress the point.

5.After the first round of the last battle is over then we actualy see Roxas combine with Sora completely.

No, Roxas is enveloped in light. Oh wait, where have I heard that before... Oh that's right, that's what happened at the beginning of the game! The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations you made a reasonable point. Problem: Lets assume that the white light does symbolise Roxas meging with Sora, that begs the question : If roxas did merge with sora at the start why did he need to do it again at the end surerly it would be redundent-paul@wiki

6.Also Demyx in the underworld says "Roxas,come back to us". If Roxas had merged with Sora im pretty sure he wouldn't just be able to split and re join Org. 13 of his own volition. It only makes sense if he was using Sora to talk to Roxas elsewhere because they're connected.

No, it doesn't. I retain my earlier arguement. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

All right if you're going to do that ill retain mine-paul@wiki

7.And as icing on the cake right before he fights Roxas Donald & Goofy are threatened by Samurai Nobodis the very kind Roxas controlled. He was using the nobodies to distract Donald & Goofy so hee could fight Sora uninterrupted. Plus those nobodies appeared in the Dark City area where only Heartless appear so Roxas must have brought the nobodies he controls with him. Unless Sora was able to control Roxas's Nobodies and i missed it that seems a little odd doesn't it?- paul@wiki

Again, ambiguous. It could mean anything. The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The fact there could be an alternative doesn't alter the fact that logic agrees with me.-paul@wiki

You're not thinking. Your Demyx arguement: If Roxas hadn't fused with Sora, what the hell was the point of Demyx telling Sora to come back to him? And pretty much everything else is random speculation. Sora and Roxas fused after the intro to the game; there's no arguement otherwise. The Splendiferous Gegiford 16:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

See thats interesting. I didnt know on talk pages rather than just adressing a point you could just dismiss it as speculation. Now that i am aware of this please allow me to dismiss you're argument as speculation since i don't see Roxas merge with Sora rather than putting together a complex argument based on EVIDENCE and LOGIC (see above).- The Splendiferous Gegiford's apprentice 00:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps i didn't make myself clear. Not adressing a point and simply stating it is bull shit is not an argument.

Since you only managed to find fault with one argument(aside from your speculation remark SEE ABOVE) which i will later prove you to be incorrect on i will instead ask you to use reasoning to address the afore mentioned concerns. Now returning to logic i refer you to "Tell me. Tell me why he picked you." There is NO POSSIBLE CANDIDATE in any of the games. THE ONLY OPTION IS AN UNAMED THIRD PARTY. Its not even explained eactly what he was refering to. As for Demyx you are the one who's not thinking. The Ansem reports along with about twenty of the game's cutscenes emphasise that there is a special connection between Sora, Kairi and their respective nobdies. If Roxas was able to see Sora's memories via that connection why couldn't Demyx try to use that connection to communicate with Roxas who could be elsewhere at the time?

p.s simply saying there is no argument besides your's is not an argument.-paul@wiki

You've failed to convince me of anything. As I said, you seem to have failed to pay attention to anything that happened in the first part of the game. The WHOLE POINT of DiZ's and Riku's role in the first part of the game was to get Roxas to merge with Sora so that Sora could awaken. And guess what? SORA AWOKE. One last thing: in the World that Never Was, Riku tells Sora that Roxas is inside him. If Roxas had just fused with Sora an hour or so ago, how would Riku have known that? The Splendiferous Gegiford 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

"..maybe he's been slow to awaken because the half of him that is roxas is still lacking". That one qoute from an Ansem Report is the whole basis of that last argument. 1."..MAYBE he's been slow to awaken because the half of him that is roxas is still lacking" 2. If we're going to form arguments based on Ansem reports allow me to make one : ".. all my theories have been blown apart...". Look it up if you like. 3.If you were paying attention in the first part of the game you would have noticed after trying to kill Diz the screen fades out and when it comes back Roxas is gone. There is no proof that they marged apart from your speculation.-paul@wiki

And there's no proof that they didn't merge. However, it's HEAVILY HINTED throughout the entire game that they did. The Splendiferous Gegiford 18:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

There just as many indicators that you misinterpreted that and it was simply stressing the connection between the two and not that they actualy merged into one until the finale. Also since you failed to address the other responses i can only assume you were unable to find anything wrong with them.-paull@wiki

It's that I'm unwilling to waste time trying to convince you of something that shouldn't even need to be debated. None of your "counter-points" warranted me responding to them anyway. The Splendiferous Gegiford 18:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

1.See now you're not making sense if you are unwiling to waste time convincing me exactly why is there a massive counter argument written by you above. 2.Im rather unwilling to repeat myself to you over & over but i do it anyway. All because im hoping to make you realise: IGNORING A PROBLEM & THROWING MEANINGLESS INSULTS AT IT DOES NOT MAKE IT GO AWAY! If it did there would be no such thing as global warming-paul@wiki

That's just it. All you're going to do is repeat the same thing over and over, so why should I even bother trying to argue with you? The Splendiferous Gegiford 19:15, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Because if you take any pride in what you do on Wikipedia you will try and help me sort this out-paul@wiki

I don't mean to offend but I think this entire conversation is meaningless to Wikipedia. This belongs in a message board, and even then I think it's outright trolling. - Zero1328 _Talk? 20:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree. The Splendiferous Gegiford 20:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Paul, I'm sorry, but three experienced editors of this page, along with many others, agree on the fusion of Roxas and Sora at the beginning, with you as the only one disagreeing. Consensus rules Wikipedia. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 20:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

All right ill agree but not because i concede defeat: because the best outcome that can be achieved here is a stalemate. Now in the spirit of information im off to clock Kingdom Hearts 2 again-paul@wiki

Removing obvious information in Kingdom Hearts II isn't in the "spirit of information". ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 06:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Neither is adding a P.O.V and carefuly censoring any information to the contrary but <people> do it anyway-cant be bothered

What "information to the contrary"? Your opinions and ignoring the most obvious facts don't count. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 06:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

You're taking this way too personaly i was simply making an observation. As for the facts im not ignoring i just don't think they're as concrete as you do. The problem with assuming you've got a point across and not clarifying it, is that people can draw different conclusions from it.-paul@wiki

When Sora and Roxas fight, it is mentioned in Jiminy's Journal that only Sora could see Roxas. Most of the fight takes place on the stained glass, which represents Sora's heart. (The sequence is officially known as "Dive into the heart" in KH10 The battle was internal; Roxas was in Sora.

Every Organization member talks to both Sora and Roxas, as if there were two people standing there. This is exactly what happens when Roxas and Namine talk at the end; the fact that Sora can see it is either because Kairi is present (You appear as I remember you, and I appear as you remember me), or because Roxas or Namine WANT Soras to see it.

The battle between Sora and Roxas was due too Roxas's unhappyness with being the dorment persona. He beleived he could have kept Axel from dying (SPECULATION!) and wondered why DiZ picked Sora to be the one to beat Organization XIII. He understands why when he sees the stained glass, he knows now that Sora is the origional. He gladfully excepts his existence and the balence between him and Sora results in Final Form. --The Crowing 19:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, all of you guys are acting just as immature as the Noid on the H*R Wiki Forum. Geg, you are right, it's HEAVILY HINTED in-game that Roxas DID merge with Sora. Paul@????, your observation seems to be somewhat incorrect. You are right on the fact there is no significant evidence that in KHII that Roxas could've possibly merged with Sora. However, other than the fact that Roxas and Sora might've not merged, it seems possible Roxas got sick and tired of being the "dormant" persona. Apostrophe, what action that you'd take will prevent this from being a stalemate? All of you, let's think this through. Demyx said, "Roxas, come back to us." This is 1 point for Geg. The Ansem Reports do have a comment to retaliate all of those "hints". This is 1 point for Paul. Sora could've saved Axel from dying if he did merge with Roxas, but what if Sora remembered Axel from Castle Oblivion? Point for Geg. 2 points for Geg and 1 point for Paul. The winner of this argument/flame war is Gegiford. Clan rHrN 22:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Hold it. Is there any offical sources proving that he did or didn't merge with Sora? 66.61.44.3 03:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Ermm... Well, this looks old, so just one comment: It was very confusing to read this, at one point it looked like one guy was arguing with himself; and a couple of paragraphs are repeated (with numbering the second time).

Hidden messages

I think the page is starting to take include way to many hidden messages. Granted, there are about a million different reasons as to why we should include them, but the fact that most of the history on this usually says "Reverted edits of anon x, changed back to last edits by registered user y" it seems to me that something is going wrong. Any ideas? -- SFH 19:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

..the history says that because it's reverted vandalism.—ウルタプ 20:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The HTML messages are included because people make the same mistake over and over. Mysterious, not Misterious! Larxene's real name is Arlene! Zexion's element is shadow! ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 21:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, It is comfirmed that Misterious is spelled correctly and Zexion does not have shadow as a element, and while Larxene's real name probably is Arlene, it's not offical. What I think we shoud do is keep the hidden messages, and make them more clear, listing examples of what not to put in there. In fact, I just added a few. Inkbottle 12:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)User:Inkbottle

• I know it's reverted vandalism. I'm saying that maybe we should try something else, since lots of people either don't see the messages (for reasons passing all human understanding) or just don't care. Any ideas? -- SFH 22:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Can someone edit Xigbar's information. Although most of it is accurate, saying that he "talks a lot" is an opinionated statement.

Final form Xemnas

• Does anyone have a picture of Xemnas in his final form robes, with his lightsaber-thingy weapons drawn? I think that would be a good addition. Or would that just be too many images? -- SFH 00:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, there's already 18 images, but I guess you could prune one of Roxas' images, or the MarluxiaxNobody orgy image. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 04:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is a good picture http://www.finalfantasyworld.co.uk/khextreme/kh2/images/artwork/KH2_Org_Artwork_Xemnas.jpg User:pride, kinji

Unnamed Nobody

When did Xemnas send an unnamed Nobody? -- SFH 16:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The person was refering to the giant dragon that Sora and Riku fight in the final battle. Personally I felt it was a machine and not a Nobody (since it has engines, obviously mechanical, and explodes in flames when destroyed). I would have reverted it, but I decided it was too minor to be of any concern. Not worth the argument, in other words.

Part of the Plan?

Are you sure that Xemnas told Roxas the existance of Sora to have him betray the organization and merge with Sora? Why would he send Axel to destroy Roxas then? Axel mentiones he's been handed down orders to destroy Roxas and will be turned into a dusk if not. By, the way wouldn't they want to keep Roxas, so they could use him to accumulate the hearts, then use Sora. Twice the keyblade power to collect the hearts in half the time.

DiZ (in KHII) and Xemnas himself (in KH:FM) say that Sora is not complete without Roxas, perhaps this has something to do with Xemnas' choice to reunite the two. As for Axel the most logical explaination is that just like Xemnas' numerous referances to his almost paternal relationship to all nobodies despite his inability to actually feel anything for them (both because he is a nobody and because he does not even have the memories of humanity to model his reactions on) Xemnas thinks about outward appearances first. Despite his plans to merge Roxas and Sora, Xemnas can still say that he did all he could without risking his plans as he knew Axel would fail. This is really all speculation but it's based in the characters' responces and actions from the game. Alot about the Organization was never explained but clearly there was some foul play on Xemnas' part.

Could it be that Xemnas decided instead to use Roxas to collect hearts after sora and he split and simply went back to his original plan after Axel failed to rescure him?- Hereticwiki.

Xemans clearly ordered Axel to get Roxas back before merging with Sora. Why would he do that if he needed them to merge? There are multiple efforts on the part of the Prganization to save Roxas from the fate the DiZ designed. The game shows, even before Roxas leaves, the dusks chacing him. IT is after they merge that Xemnas's veiws change. He accepts what has happen now plans on using Sora to his full ponential. While he sees this, he still tells the members of the Organization to try to get Roxas to return, or at least call him out so he is the domonant one, insted of Sora. A great exaple of this is with Demyx in the Underworld

Chain of Memories Manga

Where, exactly, in the manga is Lexaeus shown in a gym, or Zexion shown with puzzles? IIRC, Lexaeus is the one who has a puzzle he fiddles with; he also reads manga. Zexion is never seen doing a puzzle, only drinking tea, and making pickled daikon once. The only time Zexion is seen holding any puzzle-type item is when he's standing where Lexaeus died, and picks up the puzzle that Lexaeus had been playing with (I can provide pages of the manga to verify this.) 24.68.104.77 05:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You know, I don't remeber that either... I think if look closely you can see something resembeling gym equipment in one of the panels, but Zexion mostly drinks tea or eats something! Should it be changed? And also- where does it mention in the manga that Zexion is Marluxia's "right hand man".? I remember seeing the translation of Zexion-related pages in the livejournal Zexion community and there wasn't anything like that there... --Ti-Ana 19:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Actual hearts

The novel, however, states that they do have emotions, but are plagued with feelings of incompleteness. They label this as lacking hearts.

What novel are they talking about? Is that from Destruction of Hollow Bastion? -- SFH 20:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I think they mean the KH2 novel. --melodiester 02:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

It's Seven Days. They still don't have hearts. --The Crowing 03:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Nobody said they did. Emotions =/= hearts; they're connected, but not the same thing. Just like memories--they say over and over in CoM that memories are in peoples' hearts, yet the Nobodies can still remember things, so obviously it's not ALL about the heart. 205.188.116.68 20:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

until someone show me a link about the novels, or i see a copy, i think that it should stick with what's presented in the game. Technobabble1 21:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I doubt they mean those fleshy pumps thing, inside us. <Speculation> I think that by heart, they mean or think or refernce (whatever the damn word is) what the egyptions believed the heart was; the centre of emotion and feeling and all the other religous mumbo-jumbo. the nobodies are the pyhiscal remains (the body), and the heartless are the "emotional hearts".

That's…already been pretty obviously established.—ウルタプ 13:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Series main villians all along?

BTW I was in the neighborhood wondering if Xemnas and the gang were behind the Heartless all along, since the Heartless were meant to create Kingdom Hearts. If so do you think they were behind Maleficent and Xehanort's Heartless' crimes as well?

Uhh, do you mean Maleficent in the second game? Because Xemnas may have been controlling her since she made more heartless and this in turn helps them since they want to make as many as possible for Sora to release the hearts and combine them to form Kingdom Hearts. As for Xehanort's heartless, I believe that he was working on his own and was controlling Maleficent in the first game. Point: Xemnas and his heartless are Xehanort and are resonsible for the creation and the heartless and all the lives and worlds claimed.

This does not belong in here. Ansem created the first heartless, those heartless stole thehearts of people, who became heartless and Nobodies, who were not behind it. And sign your name next time by typing this: "69.160.28.78 23:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)" without quotes.69.160.28.78 23:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Other Identities?

Since Xemnas and Roxas are anagrams for their real names except with an X added, i.e. Ansem and Sora. That would mean that the real names of the other members of Organization 13 can be found out!

• Except that would be speculation, and as it is stated many times throughout the article in hidden messages, we do not accept speculation. -- SFH 04:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The only official "real names" are for members 1-6 and 13. Any others, like Lea and Arlene, are unofficial. 69.160.28.78 23:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

(@ original post) No, because this is fantasy and therefore conventional names do not apply.

WHAT THE

Who the HELL deleted the last four member descriptions. There all gone. Geese, someone help us put it back.

• You can revert vandalism by going to the history section, and going to the last unvandalized edit. I've already gone ahead and done that. -- SFH 04:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

TALK

I found 2 perfect pictures for the page, I found a picture of Xemnas in his final form, not his armor form just the one with the white and black robe. And a picture of Saix in his Berserk form.

The article has too many pictures as is. More are not needed.

Roxas (Kingdom Hearts)

NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DON'T TOUCH MY ARTICLE........it's mine AND I DECIDE WHO TOUCHES IT. I ALREADY LINKED IT TO ORGANIZATION XIII AND I WHANT SOME ONE TO RENAME IT IF THATS THE DARN PROBLEM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SoundPound500000 (talk • contribs)

Um... no, you don't decide anything. That's not how Wikipedia works. Besides, this has already been discussed before. Talk:Organization XIII/Archive 2#Should Roxas have his own page? So yeah, the article should be moved back here. The Splendiferous Gegiford 19:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, please consider your readers. If someone wants to search for Roxas on Wikipedia, would it be easier for him to find the information on one page or split into two different pages? Axem Titanium 20:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Music

Should I add a link to "The Thirteenth Struggle" to this page? (Please respond on my talk page.) tinlv7 23:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Merge with List of KH characters?

I dunno if this has been considered before but maybe it should. If you think about it, except for Xemnas and Roxas (and maybe Axel), each Organization member's story is relatively short and for the most part, contained within very few worlds. Also, this article goes into some pretty fancruft-type detail into each of the members (e.g. "his attacks include sending icicles to chase Sora, creating slippery frozen puddles on the ground and freezing Sora in a block of ice"). I propose to merge the Xemnas section with Xehanort, Roxas would be either spun off into its own article or merged with Sora (Kingdom Hearts) and they would all have sections under List of characters in the Kingdom Hearts series#Organization XIII. I think this would also cut down a little on the constant vandalism this page gets from anon users by placing the material in a more homogenous setting. Axem Titanium 22:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I always just thought it'd be easier to have all the Organization members in one place. The Splendiferous Gegiford 00:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

They would be in the same place, but instead of having some characters randomly off on this article, they would be with the rest of the major characters on one page. Axem Titanium 01:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

It's logical, but...

The character page is so disgusting at the moment...maybe when it's up to the standards set by this page, which is by far the best of the Kingdom Hearts article series?—ウルタプ 01:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of that, how could that page be improved? I was planning on adding thumbnails of characters like on other character lists, if that would help. On the other hand, I think this page goes a bit too far into the minute details of their stories and suffers a bit from being too in-universe. Axem Titanium 01:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

For one thing, getting rid of characters that have no real impact or role...like Lock, Shock and Barrel's bathtub.

Who thought of putting that there in the first place!?—ウルタプ 01:19, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

You make a good point. I'm in the process of pruning some pointless characters right now. Axem Titanium 01:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Hearts

There's no indication whatsoever about what happened to the Hearts of the members of Organization XIII, except for Xehanort's heart, which became the evil "Ansem" from the first game. But what happened to the Hearts of Braig, Dilan, Even, Elaeus, Ienzo and the other apprentices? Jienum 14:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

http://www.kh2.co.uk/?page=NI/Famitsu-2 In an interview with famitsu nomura was asked if the org.13 members had heaertless he replied that "Ansem" was ABOUT the only one who got turned into a human heartless. - Hereticwiki 4:35, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense, since Roxas was Sora, and Sora just turned into a plain ol' Shadow.

Hades and the Org

I know this may sound stupid, but does Hades have any connections with the Org ? I only ask because he seemed to have help from Demyx, and those Nobodies who tried to protect Auron's statue. -- 4.229.60.205 20:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

That crossed my mind as well, but I don't think so. Demyx was under orders to attack Sora, something that would be hard in the underworld. He stole the stone to get rid of the restrcited limits in the underworld so he could properly fight Sora. The fact that it somewhat helped Hades plans seems to be a coincidence. As for the nobodies, I don't know. I think they were just sent there to attack Sora. There's no evidence of them working with Hades and can't think why they would.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.34.186 (talk • contribs)

Please do not use Wikipedia as a discussion forum. Interrobamf 04:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Roxas' Keyblades

Just a quick idea, more of a minor change: Do you think it should be noted that Roxas uses Oathkeeper and Oblivion in Battle? I think this is an rather interesting fact, since the two are swords appearing in both games and seemingly represent the balance of of Light and Darkness, Strength and Magic, as Roxas is dual-wielding them. Another idea would be to give the Oblivion Keyblade an own page or put it on the same page as the Oathkeeper (Who already got an own page), seeing that they are both very important Keyblades in the series.

Short answer: No. Long answer: It's too crufty, so no. Oathkeeper is now a redirect for the aforementioned reasons. Axem Titanium 15:32, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Mkay, I am actually glad Oathkeeper page got removed. Still I do not see a problem with adding a short sentence about Roxas' Keyblades in his article.

What type of Keyblade Roxas uses isn't vitally important to anything. Thus, it isn't noted. Interrobamf 16:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to get in a groudnshaking discussion here, but there is a lot of information in this article and across whole Wikipedia that is not "vitally important". It is simply information regarding the character, and that is what this page is about. I will not try to fight for my ideas against any odds, but I don't think your argument is legitimate. Adding Roxas' Keyblades would just be another small bit of Iinformation about him, maybe unimportant to the plot, but so are most of the details listed here.

Okay, don't want to get in an edit war here. I just want a reason. It is a very minor change to call the names of Roxas' keyblades. That'S why I dn't see it bothers you so much. If you revert the edit without an explanation, please, just tell me why. I won't talk about this any more if you give me a reasonable point why it has so much les splot significance than other details and why it must not be mentioned.

I think it's because if they were mentioned but not explained, it would lead to more questions and more cruft. Also, if a detail like this is added, anon editors will think it to be appropriate to add even more. Axem Titanium 23:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah well, sounds reasonable. Thanks for giving me an explanation.

"Character classes" of the Org. XIII members...

Do you think that this article should mention that most of the members of Org. XIII seem to be based off of Final Fantasy character classes, like Saïx being a Berserker, Larxene being a Ninja (considering that she throws her knives like kunai and she moves around rather quickly), and Xaldin being a Dragoon? NeoSeifer

That's just random speculation, it doesn't really add to the article. - Zero1328 _Talk? 09:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess you're right. To me, most of them seem like they were based off of FF character classes, but how about mentioning something about the primitive Nobodies? Most of them are actually named after FF character classes. NeoSeifer

Names

I have the English Version of Kingdom Hearts II, and have seen in Jiminy's Journal that it states the names of Org XIII members 2-6 being Braig, Dilan, Even, Alaeus and Ienzo. Why is it stated on the page that they are mistranslated as Bleig, Dilin, and Eleus in the English version when they most definitely are not? Could it be that it was the case with the North American version? Jienum 20:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It must be. They're definitely Bleig, Dilin, and Eleus in the game I have. The Splendiferous Gegiford 20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

North American version? Jienum, when did you buy your copy and which region is it for? PAL (European)? NeoSeifer

I bought my copy on September 29th from Amazon.co.uk. I swear, in the PAL version I have, the names are stated correctly. Jienum 19:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

That's the PAL version then, not the NTSC version released in the US. Axem Titanium 21:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I just bought ine very recently and I can back up the original poster, they're not mistranslated. 66.231.130.70 02:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's not too much to ask, but can you post screenshots to prove that they have been corrected for newer versions? Also, you bought this in the US, right? Axem Titanium 02:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I did, but I have no camera :-( I'll see if my camera phone can catch the words. (Why can't TVs have a "Print screen" button?) 66.231.130.70 02:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I've got the PAL version and the names are Braig, Dilan, and Aeleus. Leonhart9999

Saix appears to have two scars

It may be just me but I'm definetly sure Saix has two scars. The one of his head and also one of the side of his neck. It can be seen in the scene where Xemnas and Saix are talking and when Saix says "I've been waiting to hear that", the scar can be seen just below his ear and along. Evilgidgit 14:53, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If it's something that only you noticed, it's probably not notable enough to be put into the article. Interrobamf 15:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

He has two scars on his forehead though. So it oughta say two scars. But I agree about the neck thing, not verified. 66.231.130.70 02:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a matter of semantics, whether you want to say the X thing is one scar or two. Axem Titanium 02:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

That's true. I wonder how he even got it, since it's not like Org XIII really fought anyone besides Sora and crew. But I guess that's off-subject... 66.231.130.70 02:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

S-protect?

My God, there's a lot of vandalism to this article. Not like, crummy contribs either, like blanking and such. Is this the norm, or only recent? If it's recent, it should be semi-protected. 66.231.130.70 02:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

It's actually quite funny, this article currently ranks #106 on articles with the most revisions with over 6000 edits. The KHII page is #55 with over 7000 edits. So anyway, maybe you have a good point. I thought that Kingdom Hearts II might decline in popularity a bit, since it was released almost 9 months ago, but I guess not yet. Axem Titanium 02:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

That's because it ROCKS THE WORLD, but if this is a regular thing than semi-protection is probably ill-advised, since lots of anon editors might start editing here. 66.231.130.70 02:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Axelx?

Who is Axelx, I bealive someone put that there because they thought it was funny. Pretty sure it's a lie; I can't confirm this so I'm not messing with it.

68.223.46.108 07:30, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

FFXIII link?

Why is there a link to "Final Fantasy versus XIII" on the bottom of the page under "More Info:"? 68.223.46.108 07:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Zexion in other games

I read somewhere that Zexion is going to be in Persona 3 as a guest star or whatever. I didn't believe it until I saw it on the official japanese website. (Even then, I still had my doubts because even though it looked almost exactly like him, I couldn't read what the name was.) And in the same place where I found out about the Persona 3, I also read he might be in Final Fantasy XIII. I highly doubt that one too, because when I read about it they hadn't even released Final Fantasy XII yet! Well, not in America anyways. I guess my point is, is either of them true? Is that character in Persona 3 Zexion, or just a character that just so happens to look like him?

VI Zexion 22:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Most likely not since Persona is developed by Atlus and Square Enix probably wouldn't just hand over their characters to them. Being in FFXIII is equally unlikely. Axem Titanium 00:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I understand. But who was that character in Persona 3 that looked like him? VI Zexion 21:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I've looked all over the site and I can't find anyone like him. And everyone seems to have native Japanese names anyway...—ウルタプ 00:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Edit Protection

I do not know if what I added to main page is the correct, but to me, is seemed right, though, there is also this page here, so if anyone knows how to do it properly, could you tell me also? So I know in the future in how to do Captain Drake Van Hellsing 20:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Adding that template does not actually protect the page. You must follow your link to request protection there. Axem Titanium 21:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, I got it now, and requested it there, thanks for the help in the matter Captain Drake Van Hellsing 21:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, got the page Semi-Protected, which should stop the vandalism, or at least not have the page vandalised as much by all the unknown users Captain Drake Van Hellsing 06:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Why didn't you do this sooner? Good job though of putting this vandilism thingy up. I do not vandilise this wonderfully-created article, only putting in tiny bits of info. Evilgidgit 18:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh, cause I actually just found out just the on where to go to get it all done, but point is, I got it done ;) Captain Drake Van Hellsing 20:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a good thing there is help on this website, otherwise we'd all be lost. Well done Captain Drake Van Hellsing, sir. Evilgidgit 17:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Saix Description

I know this is pretty small. In his description it says "He is a calm and collected man who shows no emotion, belying his extensively cruel nature". I'm not saying this is wrong but i thought nobodies had no emotion. So therefore how can he be calm and collected? I know this is minor but can somebody explain it? Dekou27 12:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, do you consider "calm" and "collected" as emotions instead of states of being? Axem Titanium 16:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Demyx = David Bowie?

Demyx's design seems to reference "Aladdin Sane" David Bowie, down to the haircut and the fact that they're both musicians. Similarly, Demyx's battle quote "Dance, water, dance!" seems to be directly related to David Bowie's movie "Labyrinth", with the quote "Dance, magic, dance!"

Should this be referenced in Demyx's description?

Can you find a reference for that from someplace other than your own observations? Axem Titanium 21:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)