Talk:Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez

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Untitled[edit]

"reports of gunfire from coming from the direction of the The Ellipse and Washington Monument were reported." Uh, redundancy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.84.112.233 (talk) 19:46, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note[edit]

Allegedly a note was found in the abandoned vehicle which read "“Aquí está uno de los nuestros, no la suya necesitan" or translated to English as "Here’s one of ours, we don’t need yours," indicating an organized association.

Wheres Dan (talk) 01:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

Although I have doubts about this person's notability, even if convicted, the article creator is violating several Wikipedia policies and guidelines.

  1. This is an American article, so it should have American dating Month dd, yyyy. The entry dd month yyyy is not an allowed format in the English language; the alternative international format is dd Month yyyy.
  2. The statement "but no psychological evaluation has been reported to have been conducted" is probably true, but unsourcable. You might find a source saying "no psychological evaluation has been conducted", but that would require an {{as of}} template, and is probably inapproptiate.
  3. One-sentence sections are highly questionable, and should be combined. One-paragraph sections are still questionable, but could be appropriate in some cases.
  4. This is one of the best candidates I've seen for WP:BLP1E; he's not going to be notable, and the event had much more coverage than the arrest.

— Arthur Rubin (talk) 01:10, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So fix 1-3 yourself. 4. Yesterday I would have agreed with you on this point, but now he is not a candidate for BLP1E because he's now been charged with attempted assassination of the president. This means we are only at the beginning of this. A lot more information is going to come out about him. He will be probably be tried and locked up until Obama dies, and Stephen Sondheim will write a musical about him.Bundlesofsticks (talk) 21:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I've attempted to fix 1-3, but they keep getting unfixed. And, as I said, even if he were convicted, this would still be a good example of WP:BLP1E. If the article were retitled 2011 Obama assassination attempt or 2011 US President assassination attempt, it would be notable, but should not include trivia about this person's identity, arrest, indictment, or possibly even conviction. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:20, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative proposal: title this as an event like Obama assassination attempt[edit]

since that's the charge that Ortega-Hernandez has right now. Andrewlp1991 (talk) 20:55, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Seems reasonable. It would make it clear that the article is about the attempt, not trivia about the suspect. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In fact there's an entire article devoted to Barack Obama assassination threats. The assassination threats against Obama during the 2008 conventions are covered in articles about the event rather than the perps. Andrewlp1991 (talk) 01:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that shooting at the White House constitutes a 'threat' in that sense. Whether Ortega-Hernandez was actually attempting to assassinate Obama has yet to be ascertained, but there is no evidence (as far as I'm aware) that he was threatening to do anything. Generally, if you are going to attempt to actually kill someone, you don't let them know in advance, which a 'threat' would seem to imply. Possibly the 'threats' article needs renaming, but it doesn't seem logical to include these events as it stands. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:57, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arrest Warrant[edit]

Here is a copy of his arrest warrant from The Washington Post: [1] BurtAlert (talk) 23:42, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we can use that; even though the Washington Post is normally a reliable secondary source, when they quote primary sources, it doesn't make the sources less primary. We can only use what a secondary source comments on, not what it quotes. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:06, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

counterintelligence program(?)[edit]

This is not a forum for speculation

Agencies like the FBI often make up crimes and "solve" them only for demonstration - look up "Luis Mijangos" for just one example. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

Look into "Oscar's" background, and you will probably find nothing but dead-ends and details that can't be confirmed or falsified. He will turn out to be here illegally, or he never attended high school... even the photo released to the press and his supposed "Israel" tattoo... all of these facts appear scripted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.248.161.109 (talk) 03:03, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources are indicating the FSB had a report on him at the beginning of the week. Included were sensational items about his connections and that this is a plot dealing with Mexican internal affairs the White House has involved itself in.
The goal of any op is to accomplish something, but nothing has been offered in response to it. No one has pushed an agenda with it. It hasn't been used as the reason to stop the Occupy protests publicly.
This didn't become a major news story until days after--indicating an intel gathering period, i.e. what the hell is going on. {See: "Secret Service stumped by shooting at White House"}
While it is common knowledge concerning the tactics of the U.S. government, the psychology of how this incident is being handled indicate it is not one of those false flags.
Wheres Dan (talk) 03:52, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a forum for speculation - please see WP:NOTFORUM and confine discussions to matters relevent to article content. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:56, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"This isn't a forum for speculation"--exactly my point. Research before accepting details being disseminated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.248.161.109 (talk) 04:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The alleged FSB report lends credence to the discussion of intelligence concerning this individual. One thing that is peculiar about the incident is the date, 11.11.11.
Wheres Dan (talk) 04:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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