Talk:Pantheon/Archive 1
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Pantheons DO NOT have diferent personalites, and are not downgraded versions of reploids- they're simply attack mechanilods like the Bio-Devil and the golems. Proof of this seen in various scenes in the game. For example, the Pantheons are seen being mass-produced in Hellbat Slicht's factory level. They were never reploids to begin with. Don't make the situation of Pantheons more complicated than its supposed to be.
- MegamanZero 17:32 8 November 2005
Wrong. Z3 Secret Disk No. 011-
"Pantheon are degraded, massproduced Reploid copies of X."
- You have been owned by Hypershell at 14:30, Eastern time, on Tuesday November 8, 2005.
To follow up on Hypershell:
Pantheons are Reploids as stated by Zero3. Reploids can be mass produced as stated even in the X-series:
" Lifesaver Supporter in charge of health maintenance for the Irregular Hunters. He works to repair injured Hunters, create virus vaccines, and the like. Apparently he is one of a mass-produced model of Lifesavors."
TK-31/Elpizo was also stated as mass produced in RTRZ Telos. Quoting TK-31:
"In order to constantly maintain the humans' utopia, a strict administrative organization, consisting of a large number of mass-produced Repliroids like us, and a group of high-class Repliroids with real names, was necessary."
Reploids have free will. That they're stage enemies is irrelevant. Even the Metools in X1 are Reploids as stated in sourcebooks:
"Mettool C-15
Repliroid who watches the factory. From the former series that
worked at the factory, but this time they were actually advanced
enough so as to be placed as chiefs of the factory. "
Being a Reploid automaticly implies Free Will, and thus unique personality. However, they're severely limited in their intelligence, mass produced "degraded" Reploid copies of X as Z3 states.
And as final note, it is also untrue that the RMZ series in in 22XX. In absolutely no source is 22XX stated. RMZ happeneds 100 years after Elf Wars. Elf Wars which happeneds an undisclosed time lenght after RockmanX: Command Mission, XCM which happeneds in 22XX.
- Signed: Zan Sidera 14:36, Eastern time, on Tuesday November 8, 2005.
Even in Cain's journal from X1 reploids are stated to be running off assembly lines, the definition of mass production. Bio-Devil (Rainbow Devil) is a reploid also...
From Cain's Journal MMX1 Manual:
"English Date: January 3rd / Japanese Date: May 3
The new reploids have been running off the assembly line for several weeks."
Rainbow Devil would naturally follow up as a Reploid aswell, due to it being Pantheon in origin (It has a Pantheon head for a brain.) Though I don't recall it being stated in the games/sourcebooks.
To add to the article again: Pantheons being disarmed was stated in "Vile's Incident: Eden Dome, it's Sin and Rebirth" the booklet included with RTRZ Physis, which covers Vile's (The confirmed japanese name of Dr. Weil, see Telos, Physis, V logos and Vile's Incident) regime up till 2 years after the Ragnarok Incident, the epiloque of Rockman Zero 4.
-Signed: Zan Sidera-
I don't really have a problem with the new article you wrote-except for one thing; the comment about "the pantheons having indifenitely different personalites" is at best a un-backed presumption. Nor have you cited your sources for this "information" of yours. I actuallly do like your article and the way its written, but you have failed to give any edvidence to back up your claims. Until then, the article stays as it is. Also, I've played Zero 3 coutless times (I'm a geek, sue me), and I've yet to see such a claim about them being reploids. Besides, look at the situation from a economical point of view- what would be easier for Neo Arcadia to churn out everyday: repolids with further modifications of downgrades; or simply mechaniliods without free thought and accept simple input..? Real simple.
Now that I know what the problem is I can adress it:
Check the database, File E, it does state Reploids. Which Hypershell quoted above. Further evidence in the X-series points out that Reploids are mass produced and that stage enemies can be Reploids.
Now, here's the reasoning; Mechaniloids do have personality, technically, classic series master types are Mechaniloids. However, this personality is limited in growth, it's nearly unadaptable using outside influences. Heck, even normal current day machines have personality, programming is behaviour, the way one acts, personality. As such, Neo Arcadia can give them any personality they'd wish. But I doubt they'd do. That is not the point here. They are Reploids, Reploids have the ability to mature, change personalities depending on experience, free wil. Many Reploids have pre-programmed personalities, but they can grow out of these. Hence why a Pantheon, given time, can adapt, change his personality. The thing with Reploid intelligence is that it is versitile, which makes them quite formidable, that and they fear for their own existance being ended by the enemy, always a nice motivation.
The thing is, they're specifically states as Reploids. Which means Reploid rules of intelligence apply. And that states that in theory, they're infinitely diverse in personality.
-Zan Sidera-
Once AGAIN, I keep telling you, they're mechaniloids. The simple fact is that a reploid id defined as a robot with FULL artifical intelligence, can experience feelings, stimilus, and think for themselves without input. THe pantheons are fully incapable of such actions of any sort. So even if someone termed them a reploid, they'd still be classified as a mechaniliod, simply for the fact that they cna't think outside pre-detremined orders. Reploid = robot that can think like a human; mechaniloid = fancy way of saying robot. Pantheon = Mechaniliod. So "Reploid rules of intelligence *don't* apply" here. And I'm wondering where the HELL someonegot the fact Bio-devils are reploids. Someone's clearly been smoking. In closing, even if a pantheon was given time to itself, it wouldn't develop a personality because of the simple fact they can ONLY accept orders. That's it. In fact, if they were to be releasesd from neo Arcadia, they would a) still folow pre-pogrammed orders; and/or b) shut down (ie. die) from lack of input (like the dolls under M-Bison's mind control in STF). Oh, and I wouldn't take a everything for "facts" out of the game anyway. As one who's played the game you should know MMZ has had a fair amount of translation-info problems. I use the much more reliable website and Official Source books instead. Oh, and I never stated Reploids couldn't be mass-produced; I'm just saying its not the case HERE.
It's a disc file, and I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED which one. Honestly, apply brainpower when you're looking for something. Talk to Cerveau, check the Secret Disk list, and look up disc number 011.
If you have more trustworthy sources, why don't you quote one? We did that, and until you can match it, the burden of proof is on your end.
BTW, MMZ has made two mistranslations in the entire series that I recall, and they were both in Z1. So, "it's not right because it's mistranslated" is a completely unfounded statement. That can be considered a viable response when you can actually tell us what the error is, not when you just assume it.
-Hypershell
Mistranslation is also an easy call. If it were a mistranlation, then why does it specifically say Repliroids?
http://www.geocities.com/protozantetsu/FileE.gif
Comparison to Neige's first word in RMZ4 "Repliroids..."
Also, The Inti site seems to imply adaption abilities, which reeks of Reploid intelligence. And even so, Z3 would retcon it if it were in contradiction.
Here's the translation of FileE:
"File E 'Pantheon,' a mass-produced Repliroid model that copied X in a mechanically degraded form."
In this case, it would seem it is not their intelligence that is limited, but their bodies. They are limited in what made X the greatest, infinite potential.
-Zan Sidera-
I believe that this is enough proof of it:
[Link: http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/6206/mmz34ot.png] ]
You can also check the game for yourself. It specifically says Reploids in the European and American versions and Repliroids in the Japanese version. What more proof to the fact that Pantheons are reploids do you need, if the freakin' games themselves state so?
-DominicanZero
Aye, I know when I've been proved wrong. The edvidence is indeed substanstial. The only thing I don't agree with now is the despcription for "personality" that was added on, as simply asuming that the pantheons have "infenietly" different personalities seems like more of a asumption than any stated fact. Other than that small qualm, I have to agree with all you- I'll revert the article. - MegamanZero
Though the compromise, the article was contradicting itself, hence why I rewrote some aspects to be more accurate and more accurately worded to the nature of the statements, facts and theory based on facts.
And as stated prior the date 22XX for MegaMan Zero is solely a fan creation. Even assuming we're still in the third millenium is inaccurate (though less than saying 22XX.) It all solely depends on the indefinite lenght of the Mavericks Wars and it's short era of peace afterwards. With 4 years Elf Wars after that, and 100 years of slumber for Zero after Elf Wars/battle for X after Elf Wars, till the day X sealed Dark Elf at 'Yggr-drasil,' the Tree of Life, using his own body.
-Zan Sidera-
There are many people in the military today who accept uniformity and follow orders accetingly and with pride. Many soldiers who accept their duty whether they agree or even under the reasoning behind them or not. Would we say they have no free will? Question their humanity or intelligence? Are soldiers sub-human? Interesting concept, these pantheons.
Planet Mega Man had a concept picture of a pantheon without the helmet. I haven't seen this picture anywhere else on the internet. Does anyone still have a link to that picture, or know where it came from originally? I am very curious.
- Speaking of Planet Megaman, when (if ever) will they get they're gallery back and up...? I'll be damned if they didn't have the most expanisive megaman gallery this side of the network. They had everything and anything; If the gallery was still there, the boss charcters section would be even more expansive. I've found no other website that has even come close... Please return to us PMM!