Talk:Parcel post

Article name

Actually this article is called "Parcel post" and concerns parcel post on a world basis even though there is no additional content other than US for the moment. the artcile need expansion. Parcel Post is the name of the US service for parcel delivery and that is not the name of this article. So for the time being, until additional world view data is added the "worldview" tag is appropriate. ww2censor (talk) 17:01, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Changes

I merged the sections into one history section so that it flows. I reworded the first section, as it was copied from the JSTOR article and was unclear. I added information on France and Italy. I moved the images around to more appropriate places.Noodleki (talk) 12:35, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't agree that was an improvement so I reverted it. Please describe here the specific actions you want to take so that we can agree them by consensus rather than making wholesale changes to the article which I then have to revert. Philafrenzy (talk) 12:38, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Presumably the article is copyright, in which case I would strongly suggest that it be reworded quickly. I'm sure you have no prob with info on France & Italy, and instead of having a sentence for UPU, and Britain, one history section would flow better - it's also what is done on every other article.Noodleki (talk) 12:50, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

The article is 1914 so in the public domain. If you have enough info, just create a section for France and Italy. The UPU section provides the general background and individual sections for different countries and regions provides the detail for those places. I don't agree one history section will work. See also my comments on your talk page and the Pryce Jones talk page about how innovative he was. It is completely wrong to say that the British parcel post was set up because he suggested it. There is a long history in this area and late adoption in the UK is due to the power of the railway companies (probably the same in the US too). Philafrenzy (talk) 13:09, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry Noodleki but I have to agree with Philafrenzy. Please post you suggestions for improvement here and we can then see how best to incorporate it. ww2censor (talk) 18:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid the article as it is, is a mess. There's a separate section on Britain (needless) with a load of unsourced and unimportant stuff on Australasian colonies, the first para is very unclear, the 2nd para, even worse, and the layout looks bad, with major section headings with just a couple of sentences each; especially since they're all about the history they should be all grouped together. In my last edit, I fixed those issues, without changing the content apart from mentioning Fr and Italy. About Pryce-Jones, I'm not suggesting he came up with PP, but he was a moving force for its intro in the UK, see here.Noodleki (talk) 21:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

It seems to follow a logical structure to me and I certainly wouldn't describe it as a mess though there is always room for improvement. I tried your link but it is dead. I am not sure I can agree that Pryce-Jones was even a moving force. He clearly built a large business and was an innovator in terms of scale and catalogue selling but it's still a huge stretch to say that we wouldn't have had parcel post in the UK without him or that it was only introduced because he proposed it. I suspect there might be a little bit of Welsh pride involved here and a legend that he possibly encouraged as to the role he played but this is just speculation on my part I admit. It should be obvious that parcel post was coming to the UK anyway as it did everywhere else and that the UK government was well aware of it from the 1880 Paris conference and probably before. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:02, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

The argument for the role of Pryce-Jones in the establishment of a parcel post in the UK seems to be based on this quote:

"In 1882, while Pryce Jones was campaigning to become Conservative MP for the Montgomery Boroughs, he met the Post Master General and suggested the idea of developing a parcel post to him. A letter post already existed but parcels had to be sent by road and rail carriers, sometimes at great expense - obviously an important consideration for a mail order business. The Post Master General took up his idea and the Parcel Post was developed as a result." here

This site seems to be one for local history reminiscences and stories from a variety of unknown authors. It's well done but I am afraid that I don't find it particularly authoritative and I note that 1882 is well after parcel post was discussed at the 1880 UPU conference. Do you have any stronger sources? Philafrenzy (talk) 22:29, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

here.Noodleki (talk) 22:32, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that but it isn't that strong either is it as the Pryce-Jones firm seem to be the principal source for the story! He may have had that dinner, and meetings with the Postmaster General, but his lobbying just seems to be happening at the same time as most European countries were introducing this service anyway following discussions at UPU conferences. I am happy to agree he lobbied for it and may have had influence. I still feel it is going too far to say more. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:44, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

here.Noodleki (talk) 22:48, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

OK, but that's an autobiography by his son! Philafrenzy (talk) 22:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

here.Noodleki (talk) 23:06, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

And where is this one from? Why from the Pryce-Jones archive of course! It's clear that he gave himself the credit for the introduction of the parcel post, perhaps he believed he was responsible for it, but we still don't have a single reliable independent source that says so. All the sources seem to route back to Pryce-Jones himself. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:20, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Here is a source which confirm exactly what I have said. Note the comments about Rowland Hill and also the struggle with the railways: http://postalheritage.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/130-years-of-the-parcel-post/ Philafrenzy (talk) 01:13, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

And this Act of Parliament confirms the same: Post-Office (Parcels) Act 1882, 45 & 46 Vict. ch. 74. Philafrenzy (talk) 01:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

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