Talk:Phil Ochs: There but for Fortune

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Capitalization[edit]

The synopsis page on First Run Features' official film website (same for philochsthemovie.com) renders the title with initial caps, Phil Ochs: There But For Fortune. Also in their press kit. So doesn't that take precedence for the page name over usual MOS guidelines? I'm inclined to move it thusly, unless you have compelling counter information. Tvoz/talk 02:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films), it doesn't matter what the official name of the film is:

Conventions: Each word in a film title takes an initial capital, except for articles ("a", "an", "the"), the word "to" as part of an infinitive, prepositions, and coordinating conjunctions shorter than five letters (e.g., "on", "from", "and", "with", "about"), unless they begin or end a title or subtitle. For example: Angels and Virgins, End of the Spear, Failure to Launch, I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization). Film titles, like the titles of books and other works of art, are always italicized.

There are similar rules for music, which is why both the album and the song are also titled "There but for Fortune". — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK - only on Wikipedia would it be correct to change a title. But far be it from me to buck the combined wisdom of the minions. Thanks Malik for the reply. Tvoz/talk 08:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Press Kit for the film's release gives the title as Phil Ochs: There but for Fortune on its cover, and then uses "But" in text. Reviews are split: NY Times and Variety use "but" while Film Journal International and Huffington Post favor "But". As a result, I wasn't sure which was correct when starting the article. This problem is common to titles where it's hard to tell what the artist, record company, etc., intended and what should be done in regards to the rules of grammar. Check out discussions for various Dylan titles: the film Dont Look Back, which has no apostrophe; Time Out of Mind, where "out" could be lower cased (added to the confusion was the fact that the title was printed in all caps on the cover); and Love and Theft, where the cover used "And". Ultimately, I think this may be one of those somewhat rare cases where the convention of choice gets to rule, meaning you pick one and just live with it. Allreet (talk) 19:36, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Slight correction on the above: The Press Kit uses Phil Ochs: There But For Fortune in text. That's not correct by anyone's book. Allreet (talk) 19:42, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]