Talk:Philippines/Archive 1

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The messages below were archived on June 13, 2005.

Just wondering if this is relevant enough to include in the main article:

"For comparison, although the Philippines is only slightly larger then the US State of Arizona, it has about 16 times the population and population density." --JM

Why are CALABARZON and MIMAROPA all upper case? -- Zoe

They are acronyms for the provinces comprising the regions. To wit:
CALABARZON: Cavite, Laguna, Batangas, Rizal, and Quezon
MIMAROPA: Mindoro (Occidental and Oriental), Marinduque, Romblon, and Palawan
--seav
Could you make that clear in the article, please? -- Zoe
I've stuck the full versions in parentheses after the acronym. Maybe there's a better way to do it, I don't know. --Camembert

Is it necessary to have history here AND in the history of the philippines?

I agree that history here is too long for an introduction to the main article. I'll shorten it later and move the details to the main article. --seav

im doing it now Vera Cruz done Vera Cruz

I've completed the template for this country, but I'm left with some uncertainties. Could anyone (I'm guessing seav would be a good candidate) clarify what the exact status of the Filipino language is and how English ties into it all? The Factbook and pages here seem to suggest both are of equal official status, but the Philippine government pages and the State department make a distinction in their status, with English not entirely equal to Filipino. Also, just what is the difference between the Filipino language and Pilipino?

According to sections 6 and 7 of Article 14 our 1987 Constitution (the current), Filipino is the national language while Filipino and English are both official languages:
Section 6. The national language of the Philippines is Filipino. As it evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages.
Subject to provisions of law and as the Congress may deem appropriate, the Government shall take steps to initiate and sustain the use of Filipino as a medium of official communication and as language of instruction in the educational system.
Section 7. For purposes of communication and instruction, the official languages of the Philippines are Filipino and, until otherwise provided by law, English.
—Article XIV, 1987 Constitution of the Philippines
Regarding Pilipino and Filipino language, I'm not entirely sure myself (I was hoping some linguistics or history person would come in), but from what I was taught, Pilipino is the official language since 1946? to 1973 and Filipino afterwards. Honestly, we don't see much difference and there is a continuing debate regarding the Tagalog-centric nature of Filipino, especially coming from the the Cebuano-speaking lot.
seav
Thanks, I think I'll include both in the table then, seeing as it seems to me that this issue is not entirely resolved just yet. I read that PGMA recently restored English in higher education and it struck me as odd that the governmental portal was entirely in English, without a link to a Filipino version. Mind you, part of the difficulty is that our use of "Official language" can mean different things to different people. -Scipius 23:34 29 May 2003 (UTC)
Although Filipino is the national language, it is very awkward to have some documents in Filipino. That's why most Philippine sites (sadly, including government sites) use English. seav

Tagalog and English

Allow me to display my horrible ignorance.  :)

Although Filipino (for practical purposes is Tagalog) and English are the official languages, Filipinos use Tagalog ( or native vernaculars like Cebuano, Ilonggo, etc.) for informal purposes and English for formal purposes . The spoken/oral language is Tagalog and other vernaculars like Ilonngo, Cebuano, Ilocano,etc..

The written language is English.

Filipinos would much rather have their text books like calculus, physics, chemistry, etc. written and taught in English rather than Tagalog. At home with family and friends however, most use their vernaculars (Tagalog for most). If English is used, there is an air or atmosphere of formality such as in school, government, ceremonies, etc.. It would be horrible nightmare for us Filipinos to study Engineering or Medicine in Pure Tagalog.

Pilipino is a more native word or pronounciation for Filipino, just like Nipponggo or Nihonggo is to Japanese, or Francais to French. There is no f sound in the original Tagalog.

Since Filipinos are very well oriented with English, a large influx of English words is expected into Tagalog. It is customary to substitue English words even if the word exists in the original vernacular.

Note also that natives like to speak their own vernaculars. e.g. Cebuanos and Illongo speakers don't like to speak Tagalog in their hometowns.

Jondel 10:23, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)~~

-- I taught Physics in the country and many of the vernacular languages do not have native terms for many scientific concepts so almost all variables and terms had to be in english but the explanations can be in any language.

My dad (Angel Martinez)taught college Physics for almost 35 years at De La Salle University. His name might still be found in the laboratory manuals. English is used for Physics. But I 've had classmates in Japan from Indonesea and Malaysia. Their books on Physics, Math, Medicine etc. are in their languages. Explanations can be in any language.--Jondel 14:37, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

- Thats cool, good University. I agree with you, like I said explanations can be in any language. I don't want to start an arguement with you and hope you did not take offense. Anyways the local dialect where I taught was Kinaraya and is a cool language.

Finally, I've altered the national motto. My research revealed that "Isang Bansa, Isang Diwa" was indeed the motto under Marcos and perhaps later, but the Republic Act No. 8491 from 1998 states under Ch. 3, Sec. 40 the current motto, which also seems to be part of the Philippine Pledge of Allegiance. The English translation is mine and may be somewhat incorrect, though I believe it covers the four parts. Please correct if necessary. -Scipius 17:24 29 May 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I was hesitant to include the "Isang Bansa, Isang Diwa" because that was associated with the dictator, but I couldn't find any source about the new motto if there is one. And yes, it is part of the Pledge of Allegiance (though I don't know the Pledge's new version ever since they changed it after I graduated from high school).
Regarding the translation, that would probably be good enough. "Maka-", strictly speaking, does not mean "love of" or "love for". Hmmm... when we say that someone is "Maka-Diyos" it may either mean that he loves God, is for God, is religious, or supports God. seav
If you feel it can be bettered, then please do (though try to keep it short ;)). My translation was the result of Googling for the four terms and some common sense. Would you perhaps say that "For God, People, Nature & Country" would be a better translation? -Scipius 23:34 29 May 2003 (UTC)
I think the translation on the page is better than the one above. seav


Republika ng Pilipinas
File:Philippines flag medium.png File:Philippines coa.png
(In Detail) (In Detail)
National motto:

Maka-Diyos, Maka-Tao, Makakalikasan at Makabansa

(Filipino: “For Love of God, People, Nature and Country”)
Official languages: Filipino and English
Area: 300,000 km² (70th largest; 0.6% water).
Population:

2002 estimate—84,525,639 (12th largest).

Density—282 per km².
Independence:

Declared—June 12, 1898 (from Spain).

Recognized—July 4, 1946 (from the United States).
Currency:

Philippine Peso (Piso; PHP).

1 peso = 100 centavos.

Trying out World Book Encyclopedia–style fact list. What do you think?—seav 07:44 9 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I think you ought to have discussed it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries first. That's where the standard is set. - Montréalais
Uhhh..... I did. Only mav answered. —seav 07:21 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)
...and he told you he didn't like it. I agree with him, fwiw. - Montréalais 07:53 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)


"Moro Province"?

The article on General John Pershing says that he was appointed governor of the Philippines "Moro Province" in 1909. I assume this was some sub-division of the Philippines at the time that is no longer used? I could find no info at either Regions of the Philippines or Provinces of the Philippines. Does someone have some info on this, and perhaps any other formerly used historic divisions? -- Infrogmation 20:46, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

There are a lot of previous provinces in the Philippines that have now been split up. I don't have the source but I seem to have read something about the Moro province covering most, if not all, of Mindanao. I plan on including a semi-detailed history about the reorganization of provinces in the Provinces of the Philippines article but I definitely lack a comprehensive source of information. --seav 12:44, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
UPDATE: Here's an article that somewhat explains what Moro province is: [1] --seav 12:48, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)

Filipino Inventors

I'd like to open a new page or category in one of the Filipino web page.

  • Agapito Flores - There is seems to be another who is listed as the inventor of the Flourescent lamp in the wikipedia (?!!) Isn't he recognized as the inventor?I thought he applied for a patent and sold it to GE (?) Could we get some authoritative source?
I'm quite sure Agapito Flores is an urban legend. See [2]. --seav 19:50, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
  • Ethernet card - This card can be found in almost every PC. The inventor is still alive and living in California. He graduated from Mapua. It would be good if somebody wrote about him. It would be easy to do internet research on him. Jondel 09:03, 11 May 2004 (UTC)
You must be talking about Dado Banatao. See [3]. --seav 19:50, May 11, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, on the inventor info. Will look into it and see what I can write about it.Jondel

DEMOGRAPHICS

I reverted the changes which decreased the estimate of the native Malay population from 95% down to 80%, and the suggestion that 20% of Filipinos are mestizos. [The estimates stating 95% of the population being native Filipino are agreed upon the Filipino government, the latest Filipino census, and can be found quoted on the pages of Filipino embassy and consulate websites.]

Not only is 20% a gigantic overestimation of Filipino mestizos, but it is also historically impossible. There just weren’t enough Spaniards to have created such an immense proportion of past or present Filipinos to be mestizo.

Off all the Spanish colonies, the Philippines had the tiniest number of Spaniards, both in real numbers and as a percentage. And of these Spaniards, only a few fathered offspring in the Philippines, and of those that did father mestizos most were friars or priests.

Large-scale immigration of Spaniards, as happened in Latin America, never occurred in the Philippines. Historical evidence in Spain indicates that Spanish migrants to the Americas almost drained the entire population of Extremadura, as well as significant numbers from other regions. This never happened for the Philippines. The few that did go to the Philippines weren’t Spanish, they were mostly Mexicans, who themselves later returned to Mexico.

Added to this, native Filipinos didn’t die in the millions of introduced diseases. Native Americans had no immunities for Old World diseases, and in some areas 90% of the original populations died withing the first few years of conquest. Filipinos didn’t experience this holocaust because they are located in Asia, one of the three Old World continents, they had these diseases and the immunities to combat them.

The suggestion that the original small population of Filipino mestizos eventually mixed back into the native population, endowing every modern Filipino (or even 20% of Filipinos) with an extremely diluted amount of Spanish blood and ancesrty, is a fanaticized hypothesis.

Spanish mestizos in the Philippines were a very small and privileged minority, never surpassing more than 1% of the population at any given period. Because of the high status these half-breed-Spaniards held they were extremely endogamous, never again mixing back with natives. They thought of themselves as a separate class and ethnicity. The idea that they melded back into the native majority to make "mestizos" out of every living Filipino would suggest that they went against everything that they were taught. Mixing back with a native would "taint" the mestizo with more Malay blood than he “unfortunately” already had. Why - when the ideal for the mestizo was to have (and aspire for subsequent offspring and descendants to have) as little native ancestry as possible - would they then marry back into the native population? Answer; Filipino mestizos didn’t.

If anything, the argument could work for Latin America. Mestizos in Latin America were a growing majority, while unmixed Spaniards were a healthy large minority. So there was nothing special about the mestizos there, they had no special status, and the idealization of the Latin American wasn’t to be a mestizo - because most were this - it was to be a Spaniard. So it wasn't uncommon for Latin American mestizos to marry back into native communities; here it could be said that some Amerindians might have Spanish ancestry through an absorbed mestizo ancestor, but not in the case of the Philippines.

But anyway, the existance or not of Spanish genes among "pure Native Americans" isn't the topic.

To this day in the Philippines, because almost everyone is native (95%), the ideal is to be mestizo, and most Filipinos will falsely claim to be so, even citing the "mestiza great-great-grand-mother" or Spanish "great-great-grand-father", with no evidence other than a Spanish surname [and let's not even start with how Filipinos acquired Spanish surnames]. In Latin America, apart from the relatively large unmixed European population (aprox. 30%), the great majority are mixed-bloods (mestizos and mulattos combined, aprox. 50%) and becasue of this, the ideal is to be unmixed Spanish. So in Latin America's case, many of the mixed-bloods will falsley claim to be pure Spanish. This is called colonial mentality. Al-Andalus 03:19, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Article name

I've read the talk but couldn't find anything relevant to this issue. How come this article is at "Philippines" and not "The Philippines"? Mike H 18:53, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Why has the motto been reverted to "Isang Bansa, Isang diwa"?

Shouldn't the Philippines entry link to Baybayin?

Other entries, like History of the Philippines, link to Baybayin. The main Philippines entry should, also. The entry for Baybayin begins:

Baybayin or Alibata is a pre-Hispanic Tagalog writing system that originated from the Javanese script Kavi. The writing system was believed to be in use as early as the 14th Century and was still in use during the Spanish colonization of the Philippine Islands. The term baybayin literally means spelling. Closely related scripts are Hanunóo, Buhid, and Tagbanwa.

-- just wanted to add my username to this entry -- iiams

Welcome iiams!! Maayong pagdating. (Actually filipinos say kamusta- how are you? , etc..). I'm puting these on my to do list.--Jondel 00:33, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Asian Religions

The opening paragraph states that there are three predominantly Christian nations in Asia: Timor-Leste, The Phillipines, and South Korea. Am I correct in thinking that Papua New Guniea, Armenia, Georgia, and Cyprus all fit that description as well? Should the article be revised so that it mentions only the East Asian countries, or should all be listed?

Sorry, It probably should be. People don't ussually think of Asia as including Armenia, Georgia, Cyprus, Turkey, Israel, etc.. It should be corrected to say East Asia or, to the effect that Asian Christian include Cyprus, Armenia, etc..--Jondel 00:20, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Geographically, Papua New Guinea isn't Asian, and the Cypriots, Armenians, and Georgians might well argue that they are Europeans, not Asians.Tom Radulovich 01:02, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Need to follow United Nations definitions. I'll be correcting asia to east asia in a short while.--Jondel 05:42, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Shouldn't we change it back to the two predominantly Catholic nations in Asia? The other countries in question may have a Christian majority, but they are not predominantly Catholic. Armenia, Georgia, and Cyprus are not Catholic. It is doubtful that South Korea is predominantly Christian according to the Wikipedia article, but it's sure that it doesn't have a Catholic majority. --Wng 12:05, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

I have lived in the rural areas of the Philippines for 1-2 years. I am married to a Filipina. Please, I know this is a sensitive issue---and it was ceratinly never broached during the recent presidential campaign and election---but I believe mention of it is important to any in-depth description/discussion of the Philippines. That issue is overpopulation by way of its highest birth rate in all of Asia. The Catholic church is no champion of birth control, no one would dispute that fact. Perhaps this topic is overdue for discussion, and someone could integrate it into the Wikipedia article here on the Philippines. I worry for the country: wonderful, polite, hardworking people, who will be hampered to some extent I believe by a basic lack of awareness of the importance of family planning. I look forward to your comments and to a possible addition/edit in the main article at some point. Cheers.

I 'll e inserting the par below. I expect a lot of grill on this. Oh well , part of wikipedia life .

The country suffers from overpopulation by way of its highest birth rate in all of Asia. The Catholic church is no champion of birth control and impedes efforts government and NGO efforts in education and awareness of birth control and the population explotion crisis.　--Jondel 14:29, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

WHO ERASED THE WHOLE ARTICLE? I PUT IT BACK! PLEASE DON'T ERASE! ：

No problem! Just click on the history tab (fourth), edit the page and copy the erased portion then paste back using the edit. BTW there are rules about NPOV that have to be followed, else, they have to be erased.--Jondel 14:29, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Socialism

How can the writer be so sure that socialist policies are the reason of the undevelopment? I don't exactlıy know the history of the country but I really wonder the reasons.

Pls feel free to edit based on factual info. Feel free to demand the reasons or basis and delete if not complied with.--Jondel 11:30, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

and also, it should be realized that Tagalog/Filipino is the most spoken language because it is the local language of Manila. It is not spoken natively by the most people in the Philippines.

Last two paragraphs very POV Deleted

Will be reorganized, reintegrated under the approp. subheadings: Nobel prizes, achievements, etc.:

Filipinos are peaceful people - Lovers of liberty and equality. However, when provoked Filipinos can show their steadfast vigilance for these by massive protests and civil disobedience. Two non-violent protests have already ousted two corrupt presidents. The first of the "People Power" revolutions was in 1986, this successful revolution gave strength to many peoples in different countries under corrupt and immoral regimes to rise up in People Power. In February 25, 2001, the Nobel Peace Prize Laureates Foundation (Nobel Peace Foundation) awarded the Philippines for their “wonderful gift of the spirit . . . to the world” in the form of People Power II.

The Filipinos are a creative and intelligent people. Their nation had the first national airline in all of Asia - Philippine Airlines. The inventive Filipinos also created the Yo-yo (native hunting device), and the Karaoke (Robert del Rosario. The first Asian to have entered Harvard nd to whom credit is given for her studies that lead to the incubator is no other than a Filipino woman - Fel del Mundo. Filipino designer Eduardo San Juan designed the Lunar Rover or more popularly known as 'moon bugger' used in Apollo landings. The American drug giant Eli Lilly has to thank its billions of american dollar profits to a Filipino scientist Dr. Abelardo Aguilar, who discovered Erythromycin. However, he was never paid royalties for his discovery since lab reports he sent to the drug giant were never returned and the company registered it as its own. The Filipino labor force contributes significant if not the major workforce in household helpers, nurses, and sailors.


--Jondel 11:19, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Cultural Identity

"Throughout Filipino history, no distinct national cultural identity was shaped". I don't know how true that is... I mean, yeah, the Philippines has been somewhat culturally disjointed through its history, but it's too bold to say outright that there was never and national cultural identity. Today you'd have to admit that Filipinos have at least some national identity. TheCoffee 21:34, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Phillippines or The Phillippines

The article title suggests the former, the usage in the article suggests the latter. Which is correct? Thryduulf 09:43, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Philippines (with one l) . Long formal name is Republic of the Philippines. See also cia website :http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/rp.html --Jondel 10:20, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

original name

what was the original name of the philipines before the spanish arrived.?

Magellan named it something like San Lazaro at first. I heard that it should have been Maharlika and the former President Marcos wanted to change it to Maharlika. There were many tribes and regions, each speaking their own language; Ilocanos, Cebuanos, Tagalogs etc.--Jondel 00:05, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Chinese annals from the Ming Dynasty referred to the islands south of China as Ma-i. Specifically the name referred to Mindoro but more generally to the Philippine archipelago. Before the advent of Spanish explorers, the group of islands located between 9 and 18 degrees latitude in the South China Sea had no common identity. It was Ferdinand Magellan who gave that group of islands the name "Islas de San Lazaro" because he arrived on Philippine shores on the feast of St. Lazarus.

Because it was approached from the west, subsequent Spanish chroniclers described Magellan’s archipelago simply as "las islas del poniente" the islands to the west, emphasizing the westerly route to Asia that Spain claimed as its own.

Magellan may have known about or been to the Philippines having been in the Moluccas eleven years older but came back to claim governship but had to pass through a western route due to political reasons (Tordecillas treaty, : Everything to the west belongs to Spain.)--Jondel 08:35, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Philippines; An American Colony or Protectorate?

Unlike colonies, whilst under US control, the Philippines were allowed and maintained a form of native-based self government, which by definition made them a protectorate, and an insular areas of the United States, not a COLONLY.

Under Spanish colonial rule, the Philippines' enitre government was in the hands of the Spanish and decided in the courts of Spain and New Spain (Mexico), without any input (big or small) from local Philippine lawmakers or judges. No form of a native-based governing institution existed while under Spanish colonial rule. This made it a colony of Spain under the goverment of New Spain (which at the time was itself governed by Spaniards either directly from Spain or by those sent to govern). Al-Andalus 05:45, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've added a {{disputedabout}} tag to the article about the whole colony/protectorate issue. There is also some issue as to the edits saying Jose Rizal spoke different native languages or different native dialects, although I believe within the context of the sentence they are referring to the different dialects of the Filipino language. I really hope Al-Andalus and 128.253.117.XX can settle their differences in opinion. :) --Jtalledo (talk) 01:06, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
That the Philippines were a protectorate whilst under US control is NOT an opinion.
The Philippines were NOT a colony of the USA, by simple deffinition. You can't have a form of self-government, have free elections and native political input in the running of the country - and be considered a colony. It's just thick to not understand that. You can't argue with the definition of a word.
The fact that some people consider it to have been a colony, THAT is the opinion, based on emotion I might add. Al-Andalus 07:07, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC).
Philippines was a colony. No matter what Americans say, they have slaughtered over one million Pinoys during the "INVASION!!!!!" It is disgusting to say that the Americans are treated as saints compared to Spain. Both are same. Cruel and disgusting! I am so Glad that the Americans are out of the Philippines!!!

Editing External links

There's a lot of links in the External links section - I believe we should edit the list, according to the guidelines in Wikipedia:External links. I believe we should keep some of the links directly related to the article - including most of the official sites and keep 3-5 major links in the other categories. Below is the list of links - the ones that say keep, I believe we should keep. I have also suggested some links to be moved to pages that are more closely related to the topic of the website. Reply with your thoughts. --Jtalledo (talk) 14:51, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Official websites

  • www.gov.ph - Government portal (keep)
  • www.op.gov.ph - Office of the President (keep)
  • www.senate.gov.ph - Senate (move to: Politics of the Philippines)
  • www.congress.gov.ph - House of Representatives (move to: Politics of the Philippines)
  • www.supremecourt.gov.ph - Supreme Court (keep)
  • www.comelec.gov.ph - Commission on Elections (move to: Politics of the Philippines)
  • www.dfa.gov.ph - Department of Foreign Affairs (keep)
  • www.wowphilippines.com.ph - Department of Tourism (keep)
  • www.afp.mil.ph - Armed Forces of the Philippines (move to: Military of the Philippines)


News websites

I've tried to keep the major news networks and papers with print editions here.


Other websites

Well, I trimmed down the links. I didn't follow the above plan to the letter, but the links are now down to a good size now. Compare article versions if you want. --Jtalledo (talk) 07:35, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

University of Santo Tomas

Anyone familiar with this university, please offer your opinions at Talk:University of Santo Tomas, regarding a long slow-motion edit war. -- Curps 00:12, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Comments by User:Christian1611 on the above moved to Talk:University of Santo Tomas (the user with the opposing point of view has already posted there, and it's best to centralize the discussion there). -- Curps 16:27, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Spanish in the Philippines

There have been vandalisms in both the Spanish and English Wikipedia especially on the Philippines pages insisting that Spanish is an official or a spoken language there. This is a delusion. Unless you consider Chavacano a Spanish language, and about 2000 (?) individuals, we filipinos know it is not.--Jondel 01:20, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Now someone has added a "Cultural language" category to the infobox just to put the Spanish language. Is this really necessary? I don't believe many other articles on countries here have that in their infoboxes. --Jtalledo (talk) 04:36, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)


No. Some kind of special mention or recogntion might be good. Please see Spanish in the Philippines. --Jondel 05:09, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps they're referring to the institution of the Spanish language as part of the curricula in most academes? All my former professors (the old-timers anyway) say that the least Spanish units they took in university was 12. Today, only Arts and Sciences colleges have Spanish in their syllabus and about 3 units at least. So it was considered a Philippine language before but it is no longer in use. Jute


Just discovered something about Spanish. Presidential Decree No. 155 (march 15, 1973) states that Spanish shall continue to be recognized as an official language in the Philippines. This is because most of the country's old laws are enacted in Spanish. This decree will apparently hold until such a time that the documents are translated into either Filipino or English. Jute

Religion

..This makes the country the largest Christian population in the Asia - Pacific region with 95% belong to the Christian fate

Does anyone have a reference to this claim? And is it really important enough to mention it here or should it be in the article Religion in the Philippines? --Jtalledo (talk) 04:42, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

East Timor has a population with more than 95 % Christian and the region should be East Asia.--Jondel 05:06, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Actually, the Philippines can easily be the country with the largest Christian population in Asia. Indonesia is considered the largest Muslim country in the world although it has lower percentage than most of the Middle Eastern countries. The largest Christian population should be based on the actual number, not the percentage. Being the 12th most populous country, there are actually only few countries that have more Christians or Catholics than the Philippines: USA, Brazil, and Mexico. It's possible that Russia might have more Christians as well. However, the Asian part or Russia have less population compared to the Philippines, so the Philippines can therefore claim to be the country with the largest Christian population in Asia. The other more populous countries do not have more Christians than the Philippines: China, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Japan. --Wng 12:27, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

U.S. Connection or Intervention?

There seems to be a little edit war going on regarding the title of one of the headings. Someone keeps changing it from "The U.S. Connection" to "The U.S. Intervention". Heck, someone even changed it to "The U.S. Invasion". The "Invasion" word seems very POV and suspect in its possible justification, but what about "Intervention"? Is it POV? Which is the more accurate title for the section? --Jtalledo (talk) 14:24, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Philippine-American War

>>>I think the Philippine-American war should also be listed here, as part of the Philippine History where in the Americans killed several thousand native Filipinos, mostly civilians. This would be really interesting.<<< Especially since the Spanish gave up/sold the Philippines to the Americans via the Treaty of Paris. We all know that the Philippine people were colonized by the Spanish...but most obviously RAPED (of their culture and pride) and ENSLAVED by the Kingdom and Conquistadors of Spain (as were the many Latin American countries). The Filipinos were definitely distraught over this deal between two major countries. Early american soldiers surely didn't want to be in a country where people did not want them. But at least they stayed and eventually there was some form of defense from the SLAUGHTERING JAPANESE who arrived in World War II. Who know's what kind of holocaust may have occurred if Americans hadn't stayed to fight along side their Filipino soldier comrads. Yes, the "American Cemetery" in Manila is filled with mostly Filipino soldiers, but it was the American military and General Douglas McArthur who vowed to return and liberate the Philippines, asia, and all of it's people from the tirany of the Japanese Empire. America is no saint...but neither were the Spanish or Japenese. But if you were to offer a Filipino an opportunity to WORK in either of the 3 countries...which one do you think they'd choose??? Hmmmmm.... as this person continued to state>>>>>I wish that the editors here would focus more on the important events rather than the DEMOGRAPHICS or racial composition of Philippines.<<< (what? do expect the editor to focus on how the Philippines was invaded and taken over by several destructive countries?? or how about how the philippines was robbed of it's heritage by the oppressionistic rulers of spain and it's unfair/unholy catholic leaders?!)))

Major Regional Languages instead of Working Languages

I did two things and I'll tell you why.

1. Change Working Languages to Major Regional Languages. What is a "working" language? I don't know.

2. The languages listed under Working Languages, with the exception of Cebuano, are not spoken by a great number of Filipinos. Perhaps Chabacano is an exception, too, but there are many other languages that are spoken more than Chabacano. And I have listed those. The languages I listed are spoken at the very least by one million Filipinos as a native language. I know some Tausugs and their Arabic is only limited to basic phrases like wassalam and assalamu alaykum.

That's it. Ayos na ba? --Chris 00:57, 29 May 2005 (UTC)


.............

The phrase Working Languages was used in describing the languages of East Timor. As far as I can tell, they are languages that are NOT meant to be official or expected to be permanent, but are useful lingua francas due to significance or current popularity as in the case of East Timor, Indonesean and English. Hence, they are not appropriate. Major Regional language is much better. Let us not delude ourselves with Spanish. It is not getting popular.--Jondel 01:29, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
To the anonymous user from Oz ... But Spanish, Chinese, and Arabic are far from being languages of any great significance in the country. If you feel that they must be noted, then make mention of them somewhere with respects to the subtopics of economic and marketing - if indeed they are used in those respects.
What am I worried about? I am worried that people who know nothing about the Philippines will get the wrong impression about the country. The real Philippines isn't a monoculture as the "Filipino" language suggests. But it's a multicultural archipelago which has been that long before the first Europeans set foot there. Spanish, Chinese, and Arabic in no way faithfully represent the rich diversity of ethnolinguistic groups there. Let us not kid ourselves. Furthermore, should various countries in the world put English as a working language even when other languages represent its cultures more and English really doesn't? Of course not! --Chris 19:21, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

No unifying language problem

Spanish(or Tagalog or English or Cebuano) is OK but there is regional social peer pressure to not speak a non-native language.

  • Language is a problem in the Philippines. (We do need a unifying language)
  • Many don't speak English or Tagalog (consider Cebuanos, Ilocanos, etc.) at home. (Tagalogs of course speak Tagalog)
  • Filipinos have no Unifying language
  • There is a feeling that Tagalog should be the national language. However, Cebuanos, Ilocanos and other regional speakers refuse to speak Tagalog at home (of course with other regional speakers they speak Tagalog and English as the lingua franca). This is one reason why Quezon and his committee named the language Filipino/Pilipino and not Tagalog - for fear of repercussions from other regional speakers, especially the Cebuanos.
  • There is regional peer social pressure to not speak a non-native language; e.g. English and Spanish are considered the language of the rich or elitist. English is used in formal situations. There is an atmosphere of formality or academia, etc., when it is spoken.
  • English is too embedded as the language of education and government; e.g. try to convince a medical student to study Medicine in Filipino or calculus in Filipino/Tagalog/Cebuano and see what happens. In general people read and write in English but speak Tagalog or the regional language.
  • Most Filipinos may not know this but we have around 13 million Spanish manuscripts in the Philippine historical archives. Some of the land titles are still in Spanish. People around 55 years old and above have birth certificates written in both English and Spanish.
  • Living in Japan where there are many foreigners speaking different languages, I realize that there are too many language hang-ups in Filipino society. For me it really doesn't matter what language you speak (I like languages). Not having a unified common language presents problems. Not being able to express emotions, etc., or the feeling of awkwardness, or being misunderstood is a big problem. If a battered Bisaya wife presents her problems in a court of law in Manila (where Tagalog is spoken but English is used), she may fear being laughed at because her regional ('probinsya') accent comes out, complicating matters more. There is an outsider mentality which non-native speakers vividly feel. There was a Malaysian student at my University who looked like a Filipino. He was scolded for talking in English and not Tagalog; the librarian accused him of being elitist ('ang yabang mo', ek ek). He explained that he was Malaysian and not Filipino and could speak only in English and Malaysian. There are many similar cases like this. --Jondel 00:54, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ethnic Austronesians?

What is an ethnic Austranesian?

First of all we must outline what "ethnic" and "ethnicity" actually mean.

Then we must determine if we can honestly deem the speakers of the world's largest spanning linguistic family as a monolithic "ethnic" group, when in fact most so called "Austronesians" (ie speakers of Austronesian languages) are actually belong to various unrelated TRUE "ethnic groups"; Malays, native Taiwanese, Polynesians, etc. These groups have nothing in common with one another, other than their current spoken languages being derived from an ancient proto-Austronesian language spoken tens of thousands of years ago. The Malays (of the Malay archipelago, which encompasses the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia) as a group are a valid ethnic grouping, as these people's cultures, customs, and traditional tribal beliefs - prior to the relatively recent introduction of Abrahamic religions - are a common shared related and intertwined heritage.

To propose the label "ethnic Austronesian" is like proposing "ethnic Indo-European". No such thing exists, because Indo-European is a linguistic group, even though within this linguistic group one can often find "ethnic groupings", but which are unrelated.

That which makes an "ethnic Afghan" related to an "ethnic Bengali" and "ethnic Hindu" - but not "ethnically" related to the examples which will be given below - is their cultural customs (a.k.a. ethnicity), not their languages (which are Indo-European). Likewise, that which makes an "ethnic Spaniard" related to an "ethnic German" and an "ethnic Greek" - but not "ethnically" related to the examples which were given above - is their shared cultural customs (a.k.a. ethnicity) not their languages (which are also Indo-European).

"Ethnic Austronesian" is a very poor attempt at coining a new "ethnic" category in order to avoid using "Malay" (which is a true group, whether people want to belong to it or not). In fact, by simple definition of "ethnic" grouping, "Ethnic Austronesian" fails to meet every criteria of what constitutes an ethnicity; customs, codes, traditions and ancestral ties. Ancient linguistic relationship is one of the last factors looked in defining an ethnic group, and it is most certainly not the ONLY factor to be used when determining "ethnicity".

Ancient linguistic relationships, are just that; an ancient linguistic relationship. I can't stress this enough. One wouldn't propose both people from Turkey and Japan are "ethnic Uralo-Altaics", because Turkish and Japanese are proposed members of this linguistic family. Even if it was shown that they are members of this family of languages, this only makes them related languages, not an "ethnic grouping", especially not in the context of what "ethnicity" means, and considering the unrelatedness of modern Turkish and Japanese people. Such is the case of the Polynesians, native Taiwanese and Malays suggested to be "ethnic Austronesians".

"Also, I reverted Malay to Austronesian. Malay is a misleading term that is being avoided." Quoted from an Edit Summary posted by user Christopher Sundita on 00:45, 3 Jun 2005.

The term Malay could only be "a misleading term" for the uneducated and academically ignorant. Well, aren't we lucky that the purpose of Wikipedia (and education in general) is to combat academic ignorance in an effort to educate all those wishing to learn ;

Typo on the Area section of the infobox

• Total 300,000 km2 (120,000 sq mi) (72rd)

It should probably say 72nd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.190.67.21 (talk) 07:13, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Already corrected - thanks for the suggestion! BushelCandle (talk) 14:19, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2017

Please add this {{BRFA|ClueBot NG||Open}} to the page ClueBotNg (talk) 15:19, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Edit request

Context should be shown that Philippine-war was preceded by the Spanish-american war. America Liberated Philippines from 300 years of Spanish rule, the Spaniards fueled a guerilla war against America. America restructured Philippines over a generation into a democracy and fought off the Japanese occupation. then let the country go. obviously America kept their military bases for obvious reasons. context should be added, my grandpa fought in the Philippines and a lot of his buddies died there. now they have freedom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:e000:fb89:7800:f593:261f:8032:deaa (talk) 19:12, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Please note that Wikipedia does not publish original research, so you'll need to cite reliable sources for any specific addition or change you're proposing. RivertorchFIREWATER 03:04, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Marawi Conflict

23 of May 2017 while the importance of being able to see the terrorist attacks to happen this brutal siege that has comprise of the Philippine government against the ISIS insurgency in the Visayas region of the Philippines Brutal long siege in recent conflicts that has happened in the region has finally subsided as the ISIS insurgence had lost eventually in this long hard fought brutal siege that should not be forgotten as part of the modern contemporary military history of the Philippines. Casualties: Philippines 168 KIA and 1,400+ wounded ISIS 978 killed 12 captured Total strength Philippines: 3,000 in June 6,500 by June ISIS: 1,000 militants @https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Marawi 2600:4040:A4DB:A600:8059:2428:93E0:3FD6 (talk) 21:58, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

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