Talk:Prem Rawat/WIGMJ

Source: Cameron Charles (Ed.), Who is Guru Maharaji, Bantam books, November 1973, pp.83-84 (note: Prem Rawat was 15 years old at the time of the publishing of this book)

Guru Maharaj Ji, who are you?,

Who am I? I'm just an ordinary humble servant of God, preaching the gospel of peace in the world, preaching the Knowledge of peace. Am I anything else? You are seeing my body, but I am not my body.What I am is something else inside me.

What are you? You are not your body, you are something else.What I am seeing when I look at you is a perishable object, a case in which that power, that soul, is being carried. Understand? When you see a camera, what you are seeing is not the camera, it is a tin case. The machine is inside it. Right? The case is not taking the picture, it is the machine inside that is taking the picture. And what is me is inside me. And if you want to know what that is, then look inside yourself, and once you realize that, you can realize what is inside me.

Because that's the one common factor among all of us. It's not your body, because you can't operate on it. Doctors can do operations but they don't see that light inside us. Not by these eyes can you see that light. It is the divine thing, and to see that you need the divine thing.

Do you regard yourself as being a teacher of new religion, or do you regard yourself as God or the son of God?

A rose does not say that I am a rose. People who see it say it is a rose. This is the question I always get on television and on all the news programs, "Why do people say you are God?" And I say, "I don't say I am God. People see something in me and they think I am God." Right?

This quote is interesting in relation to the few direct quotes from Rawat where he is asked if he is God, and he says he isn't. Here is is saying that he (the 'rose') cannot say what he is. --John Brauns (talk) 23:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Not really. Read the last sentence. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I've returned my comment to the place where I wanted it as it wasn't clear which quote i was refering to where you put it. It's also not clear now which 'last sentence' you are refering to.--John Brauns (talk) 14:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

What is your mission in the world?

Our mission is to bring peace, love, and truth into this world. Man is supposed to be human, but actually he has lost his humanity. That's why there is so much frustration, so much jealousy, and so much hatred between human beings. We have started this mission, and it's working very, very successfully distributing love, truth, and peace so that the idea of brotherhood can come into the world.

Quote from back cover, and Chapter 2

"Why do more than six million people around the world claim he {Guru Maharaj Ji / Prem Rawat} is the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod on the face of this planet?"--John Brauns (talk) 23:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Interesting counterpoint, what others said of Prem Rawat, and what he said about himself when asked directly, right?. This is a quote from the mother (p.294) "A devotee of Satguru, of God, he liquidates himself, or dissolved himself, or effaces himself on the Lotus Feet of the Lord". That is what is called in Hinduism, parapatii. The mother being a staunch Hindu, may make this understandable (or not, depending on one's opinion of her). ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:00, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The importance of this quote is that Divine Light Mission, through its trading company, Shri Hans Productions, in a book described as the 'authentic authorised story of the 15-year-old Guru' stated that six million of Rawat's followers believed he was the greatest incarnation of God that ever trod on the face of this planet. I think that fact should be highlighted in the article. If there are sources that directly make the interpretation you suggest, or if that interpretation was published by Divine Light Mission subsequently, then consideration can be given to including that in the article as well. --John Brauns (talk) 14:21, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Quote from Rennie Davis's Intro

"When a devotee makes the outrageous claim that Guru Maharaj Ji is the Lord of the Universe, it's cause enough for a chuckle. But it happens to be true. Guru Maharaj Ji is the Lord of the Universe and anyone can find out who sincerely wants to know."--John Brauns (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Quotes from Chapter 2

"At the age of eight he became Perfect Master, he who alone can reveal the highest human experience."

"In one of his early discourses Satguru Maharaj Ji promised to spread the Knowledge of God to the entire world in his lifetime. Before a million devotees in New Delhi, he revealed his plan for a great 'Peace Bomb'. .... He said:

......

'Give me your love and I will give you peace. Come to me and I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace in this world. All I ask of you is your love. All I ask is your trust. And what I can give you is such a peace as will never die. I declare I will establish peace in this world.'"

--John Brauns (talk) 23:41, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Page number? I cannot find that text in Chapter 2. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The complete quote (p.14):

Give me your love and I will give you peace. Come to me and I will relieve you of your suffering. I am the source of peace in this world. All I ask of you is your love. All I ask is your trust. And what I can give you is such a peace as will never die. I declare I will establish peace in this world. But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and truth.

≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:09, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

btw, the speech was not recorded and what is available are translations/adaptations from notes taken in Hindi. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

If you have a source for this claim then of course it can be included, but the published book makes no mention of any such unreliability of the translation. If you don't have a source for your claim then I suggest you do not use Wikipedia pages to give your opinions. --John Brauns (talk) 14:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I spent time in the archives in the Delhi ashram a few years ago, and saw the hand-written notes taken in Hindi. There was no audio or video recording of that speech. That is not my opinion, just a fact that may be hard to verify. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. I am aware of many facts pertaining to Rawat that although I can verify to journalistic standards, I cannot to Wikipedia BLP standards. I'll try hard to keep my facts out of these discussions, if you do the same. Deal? --John Brauns (talk) 18:26, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Quote from Chapter 3 - What is Knowledge?

"Knowledge is not a religion; it's the direct experience of God."--John Brauns (talk) 23:45, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

page number? 00:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Page 18. --John Brauns (talk) 14:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Full quote:

"Guru Maharakj Ji, are you God?"

"No. My Knowledge is God"

Knowledge is not a religion; it's the direct experience of God, or eternal energy that all religions talk about. It establishes beyond a doubt the intrinsic unity between all human beings."

Note that the last sentence is not attributed to Prem Rawat. That is the editor's viewpoint. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is the editor's viewpoint, and hence Divine Light Mission's, that I am seeking to clarify. --John Brauns (talk) 18:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe this is a pretty common idea in Eastern religion, even in Western religion to some extent (the kingdom of heaven is within you and all that). It does not strike me as very unusual. Jayen466 22:24, 11 April 2008 (UTC)