Talk:Primeiro Comando da Capital

Unneeded translation

What's the point on translating nicknames from Portuguese to English here? I see no point at all!

I even can't see a point on putting nicknames at first, since it adds nothing to the comprehension of what is the PCC gang in a world-wide basis. Someone says: "oh, Geleião means Big Jelly" and, say me, what a f%$#@* hell it adds something of value to know what is PCC? --Officer Boscorelli (talk) 19:19, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

References and citations

I did a quick bit of research, and found some links to the BBC website regarding the recent events:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4771455.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4770097.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4770469.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4837592.stm

I will try and get these into the article if appropriate, but others are welcome to try! --Popeyedoyle 14:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

This is regarding my last edit, in case someone feels it needs justification. It's not up to Wikipedia to judge the governor's decision to reject federal assistance. That violates the WP:NPOV policy. It is also impossible to say that ALL the attacks were coordinated by PCC leaders inside prison, as it is reasonable to say there are still leaders outside of prison, and it is also possible that some criminals will take advantage, given the fact that the police has a lot of trouble to deal with, and their response time might be increased, some of the criminals might be inclined to be more active during this event. PHF 21:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

No US News Coverage?

Why is this getting no news coverage in my good old U S of A? I just spoke to my friend who lives in Sao Paolo and she makes this situation sound incredibly scary and violent. To have organized crime on the run in a civilized nation? That seems newsworthy in the west. I understand that we have our own problems: Iraq, the new gas crisis, the immigration crisis and the Darfur genocide, but why not a whisper of this PCC problem in America? This scares me as an informed American and friend to Brazilians. Stephen 01:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. I get CNN on cable and I saw a report on this, and I've actually added references from the CNN and FoxNews websites on the article. I can't say anything about non-cable networks you guys get such as CBS, ABC or NBC, but maybe you just missed it. I must say that the scale of this thing is unprecedent and has it only been going for a few days, but who knows whats the current agenda for the media in the USA. PHF 02:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of it and I watch quite a bit of news. --mboverload

@ 02:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I am baffled. Nevertheless I added another reference just now, the New York Times. PHF 02:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, nothing on the CBS Evening News with Bob Schieffer, I watch it religiously. Stephen 02:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, weren't you watching the CNN International instead of the CNN US? zanderredux 02:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes I was, that's probably it. Nice catch. PHF 02:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

My experience of the american media whenever i've visited the US is that it is very parochial. If it doesn't directly affect the US then it ain't on the US news. There are some exceptions to this (such as the Darfur crisis). But generally american media seems more inward looking than european media.Rubbershoes 15:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Was "Shadow" actually spanked to death or was this a piece of vandalism that has been missed? Kyaa the Catlord 13:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it's probably imperfect translation rather than vandalism. I would fix it, but it's such a lovely image I don't have the heart. Henry^Flower 13:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I had to show everyone in my office this part. More reason not to go to prison, men get... weird... in prison. Kyaa the Catlord 13:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I saw that as well and just kinda went... 'wtf'?. A google search of a "Piranhão" also results in no spanking-related device. So... not sure what to do there. --OMG LAZERS 14:31, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I was about to ask but you guys beat me to it! Vince In Milan 14:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

LOL, "Shadow" was beaten to death. That's a translation issue (false cognate, since "beating" in Portuguese is "espancamento" which, in turn, sounds kinda like "spanking"). LOL nevertheless - zanderredux 14:56, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Shame it's been changed ."spanked" made me chuckleRubbershoes 15:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that, that was somewhat of a lenghty translation and I let that one slip, although I am certain Shadow had very strong buttocks. PHF 15:56, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

estatuto

Someone could translate the "estatudo do pcc" for the article.

From - http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u22521.shtml

ESTATUTO DO PCC

1. Lealdade, respeito, e solidariedade acima de tudo ao Partido
2. A Luta pela liberdade, justiça e paz
3. A união da Luta contra as injustiças e a opressão dentro das prisões
4. A contribuição daqueles que estão em Liberdade com os irmãos dentro da prisão através de advogados, dinheiro, ajuda aos familiares e ação de resgate
5. O respeito e a solidariedade a todos os membros do Partido, para que não haja conflitos internos, porque aquele que causar conflito interno dentro do Partido, tentando dividir a irmandade será excluído e repudiado do Partido.
6. Jamais usar o Partido para resolver conflitos pessoais, contra pessoas de fora. Porque o ideal do Partido está acima de conflitos pessoais. Mas o Partido estará sempre Leal e solidário à todos os seus integrantes para que não venham a sofrerem nenhuma desigualdade ou injustiça em conflitos externos.
7. Aquele que estiver em Liberdade "bem estruturado" mas esquecer de contribuir com os irmãos que estão na cadeia, serão condenados à morte sem perdão
8. Os integrantes do Partido tem que dar bom exemplo à serem seguidos e por isso o Partido não admite que haja assalto, estupro e extorsão dentro do Sistema.
9. O partido não admite mentiras, traição, inveja, cobiça, calúnia, egoísmo, interesse pessoal, mas sim: a verdade, a fidelidade, a hombridade, solidariedade e o interesse como ao Bem de todos, porque somos um por todos e todos por um.
10. Todo integrante tem que respeitar a ordem e a disciplina do Partido. Cada um vai receber de acôrdo com aquilo que fez por merecer. A opinião de Todos será ouvida e respeitada, mas a decisão final será dos fundadores do Partido.
11. O Primeiro Comando da Capital PCC fundado no ano de 1993, numa luta descomunal e incansável contra a opressão e as injustiças do Campo de concentração "anexo" à Casa de Custódia e Tratamento de Taubaté, tem como tema absoluto a "Liberdade, a Justiça e Paz".
12. O partido não admite rivalidades internas, disputa do poder na Liderança do Comando, pois cada integrante do Comando sabe a função que lhe compete de acordo com sua capacidade para exercê-la.
13. Temos que permanecer unidos e organizados para evitarmos que ocorra novamente um massacre semelhante ou pior ao ocorrido na Casa de Detenção em 02 de outubro de 1992, onde 11 presos foram covardemente assassinados, massacre este que jamais será esquecido na consciência da sociedade brasileira. Porque nós do Comando vamos mudar a prática carcerária, desumana, cheia de injustiças, opressão, torturas, massacres nas prisões.
14. A prioridade do Comando no montante é pressionar o Governador do Estado à desativar aquele Campo de Concentração " anexo" à Casa de Custódia e Tratamento de Taubaté, de onde surgiu a semente e as raízes do comando, no meio de tantas lutas inglórias e a tantos sofrimentos atrozes.
15. Partindo do Comando Central da Capital do KG do Estado, as diretrizes de ações organizadas simultâneas em todos os estabelecimentos penais do Estado, numa guerra sem trégua, sem fronteira, até a vitória final.
16. O importante de tudo é que ninguém nos deterá nesta luta porque a semente do Comando se espalhou por todos os Sistemas Penitenciários do estado e conseguimos nos estruturar também do lado de fora, com muitos sacrifícios e muitas perdas irreparáveis, mas nos consolidamos à nível estadual e à médio e longo prazo nos consolidaremos à nível nacional. Em coligação com o Comando Vermelho - CV e PCC iremos revolucionar o país dentro das prisões e nosso braço armado será o Terror "dos Poderosos" opressores e tiranos que usam o Anexo de Taubaté e o Bangú I do Rio de Janeiro como instrumento de vingança da sociedade na fabricação de monstros.

Conhecemos nossa força e a força de nossos inimigos Poderosos, mas estamos preparados, unidos e um povo unido jamais será vencido.

LIBERDADE! JUSTIÇA! E PAZ!

Mateus Zica 15:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I attempted a translation, I would be grateful if someone proof read it for me as I was quite loose on a few terms. PHF 16:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Dalillama just removed the translation saying that it should go on Wikisource. I'm not sure I agree as the translation is not outside material, but has been generated by a Wikipedian. Thoughts? - BanyanTree 19:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you BanyanTree , i vote to do not remove the Statute Mateus Zica 21:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

You're translating a primary or secondary source (in this case, Folha). The statute, much like a manual or pamphlet, for example, should go into Wikisource or WikiCommons (depending on format and media). The way you rephrased it, by giving a summary of main points should be fine. much like the Little red book, you don't need to reprint the entire source document to extract its meaning.--Dali-Llama 23:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to point out that the article in wikisource has a typo in the word "Capitall", Im not a contributor to wikisource and I don't know how to, but I think someone should fix that PHF 03:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I think this "estatuto" adds nothing to the comprehension of the PCC as what it really is: a criminal organization only! Why not add the credo of the mafia or the system of belief of the Russian crime lords also? Bah, nonsense! If someone translate and add this "estatuto" translated, I will have pleasure on deleting it for good... it's totally trash! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Officer Boscorelli (talk • contribs) 19:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Minor Edits

There's no word as 'galeião' in Portuguese. The alias of the guy was 'Geleião' which means 'big jelly' in Portuguese. But maybe this stands for 'big slime' instead, as a reference to popular Ghostbusters character 'Slime', which was named 'Geléia' in Brazil. NeedABrain 18:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

On the subject, I've been thinking of adding the english translation for the alias of Antônio Paixão (Passion), and interpreting "Dafé" as "Faithful". What do you think? PHF 19:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

My God! You really lose time of your life to add a translation (and a discussion on how to translate) a street hoodlum nickname? Lost a little more of your precious time and tell me: what your adamant effort will add to his article at all?

Paixão (Passion) is a surname in Brazil.

I am aware, that is why I didn't put it there at first instead of suggesting it here. But since every criminal has a special alias, I just thought it would be worth mentioning which one his is, and it is no coincidence they used the surname because it has meaning, unlike most other common surnames PHF 01:39, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

You're wrong! Hoodlums generally have more and even much more than just one nickname. A nickname adds nothing to the main article on the criminal enterprise they call PCC. I agree a real name is valid and important, but a nickname is nothing more than the electronic equivalent of garbage.

Otherwise, I must agree, nicknames provides us some very good laughs... can you picture a bandit nicknamed "Big Jelly"? Hahaha. Remembers me of that character of Analyze This, that "Jelly" guy. --Officer Boscorelli (talk) 19:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

What is special about 15 May?

From the article:

May 15th was a very unusual day in the major city of São Paulo...

This comes across as a non sequitur: was this date the height of the "Attacks of May 2006"? Did the PCC announcce some special threat/action on this day? For a FA, this glaring break in the flow of this otherwise fascinating article is inexcusable. (And I mention it here on the Talk page in hope that someone more familiar with the article & what was meant to be said will quickly fix it.) -- llywrch 02:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I wrote that passage, I hope I can clarify. What that was inteded to mean May 15th was monday, the first work day of the week and the first work day after the beginning and heightening of the attacks. You couldn't really tell the difference as much as that on the weekend. On the weekend the commercial establishments kept their normal routine, road traffic didn't suffer any major alterations and people usually tended to their usual matters. May 16th was the day people didn't go to work, schools, and traffic was the most chaotic as ever seen. You could say that yes, this was the height of the attacks and people are generally referring to that as "the day the city stopped". The aftermath, May 16th, was somewhat unusual as well, with the day starting slow but gradually changing back to normal. In any case, I will specify that in the article, you can suggest more adequate phrasing after that if you likePHF 02:16, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

About PCC's Political Bias

Well, someone took out the text about PCC's leftist political views. Can we put back the sentence about PCC's political and ideological slant?

PCC is not leftist! PCC is just "outsidal". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Officer Boscorelli (talk • contribs) 19:32, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it is relevant to the article to emphasize how articulate this criminal organization has become from its prison gang roots, especially because the recent events have shown how the Brazilian State is currently incapable of dealing with it as it has done in the past with other prison gangs, such as Comando Vermelho. Local specialists point out that this strong and clear ideological orientation is precisely what has made the group successful so far (at the expense of the rest of the population). Here's a link to support this view: http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u121503.shtml

It is particularly worrisome since they seem to have actual means to expand beyond state borders, unifying similar, less structured criminal organizations in other Brazilian states (or even creating chapters in states that do not have such things). zanderredux 02:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, although this may prove difficult, as leftists will certainly feel offended to have their views associated with a criminal organization PHF 03:35, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, they're political but they're not within bounds of the democratic political left. Maybe just calling them "politically oriented" will suffice? zanderredux 14:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

While I would rather not use any euphemisms, that seems reasonable. PHF 15:29, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

So what if they're offended? Should we suddenly claim that Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and other leftist dictators weren't leftists merely because someone might get offended? That's utterly absurd. 68.158.167.141

Editorializing vs. NPOV, again

This article currently contains lots of editorial POV; can the many value judgments and speculative comments currently in the article either be attributed to cited sources, or removed as per the NPOV policy, please? -- The Anome 11:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Can we post examples of NPOV in this area, so we can fix ASAP? zanderredux 14:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The article could be better written, but I don't think it has a POV problem, so I am going to remove the tag. Calsicol 17:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Article

Much bothers me, as an administrator for Portuguese Wikipedia, that our beloved one-million-reference-version has nothing but a subseccion of this already historical and astonishing episode of violence in São Paulo. Usually we use the english version to tranlate to Portuguese language, even in some local matter subjects. I would recommend you to check out the Portuguese article on the Attack of May 2006 (Onda de violência no Brasil em Maio de 2006). "Main Page Now" with that! -- Indech 17:39, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow! I can't read Portuguese, but the articles looks great. You raise a good point; this subject isn't being covered enough on the English Wikipedia. However, I moved the information from this article to 2006 São Paulo violence because it allows for the information to be more centered on the event. Leaving the event in this article didn't really leave room to discuss the role of the police in the situation and the criticism they have been receiving as the entire article is devoted to the gang. Perhaps, I'll request that the article be translated. joturner 03:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a job for Kungfu, the resident Portuguese-English translator. Will get on it soon...--Kungfu Adam ^(talk) 12:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Police/PCC political long view

It seems like PCC may be around a while - it is already very large, it is organised and its 'statute' is strongly opposed to allowing members to become divided. The statute document is interesting because it cements the initial basis for forming PCC (action against the Brazilian police and penal system) in a codified form which is now publicly available. PCC sets itself up with a motto of which most Americans would be proud ('Freedom, Justice and Peace') but in its conduct appears to be at odds with its own code. In this it presents a paradox symptomatic of Brazilian society.

It will be very interesting to watch this article. Thus far it seems that the periods of unrest in Brazil have been characterised by violence and killing by gang members and police alike and (in terms of 'body count') I am unclear as to which side is the greater perpetrator. With major orchestrated episodes in both May and July 2006, it seems that the PCC is gaining greater visibility and unlike many other criminal organisations, this is a primary goal. It seems PCC has more in common with a revolutionary terrorist organisation than a traditional organised crime network and in this instance the express intention of the organisation is to oppose and confront "oppressive" law enforcers. It looks to me like the PCC is a uniquely political prison gang and it's interesting to note the repeated references to 'the Party' in the PCC statute translation.

Ethinicity

The page states the gang is "Predominantly Pardo and Afro-Brazilian". There is no source for this. It might be true that there is a predominance of pardo and balck people, but if this is the case, this would be solely because those groups are large in the poor comunities where this organization recruits most of its members, not because it is a racial gang. Anyway, I am not sure any predominance like this in PCC is true. The presumed leader, Marcola, is white, at least for Brazilian standards, such as many other members and leaders. I removed the ethinicity information for 2 reasons: no source was provided and, even if any ethinic group is predominant, the gang has clearly no racial motivations, unlike the real ethinic gangs in USA. Stating specific ethinic groups to PCC misleads people to believe that this gang is associated with any racial issues, and it is not. 177.182.19.79 (talk) 06:06, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Allies

First of all, I'm sorry about my english.

Comando Vermelho and Primeiro Comando da Capital are no longer allies, since september of 2016. They have declared war on each other. Each side has a large number of troops (between 7 and 10 thousand), mainly fighting inside brazilian prisionary system.

CV is allied with FDN (Família do Norte), Okaida (A violent group that inspires themselves on Al-Qaeda), Bonde dos 40, PGC and Sindicato do Crime do Rio Grande do Norte (SDC-RN). PCC is alone in the fight, being the biggest crime organization in the country.

The war is reported in a number of references, some of them can be found in brazilian wikipedia: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflito_entre_PCC_e_CV — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcanj106 (talk • contribs) 08:16, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Membership vandalism

Could someone review the article story for a change to membership counts? I swear they used to be 800,000 with 50,000 in the prison system. I fear the article is being vandalized. 35.128.30.230 (talk) 17:50, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Recent updates

Added new information and did some minor reestructuring since there's a fairly large amount of new information available on the PCC as of 2023. I don't think there's an established pattern in criminal organization pages regarding what constitutes Territory or Allies in the infobox so I might still look into that. As for the body of the article, some of the legacy stuff could probably use a rewrite and the Ryan C. Berg papers on the references still contain a lot of information that would improve the page. I should continue whenever I find time for it but don't be afraid to lend a hand. - Jesterr35 (talk) 04:07, 5 December 2023 (UTC)