Talk:Protests in Portland, Oregon

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Source[edit]

---Another Believer (Talk) 18:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

George Floyd[edit]

---Another Believer (Talk) 16:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

---Another Believer (Talk) 05:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Women's marches[edit]

@Jmaxfield18: First, thanks for your hard work documenting protests here on Wikipedia. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed. I've included mention of the Women's March on Portland in this article, but I'm curious if you think the page should have details about subsequent women's marches as well? I debated moving the Portland text in the 2018, 2019, and 2020 pages to here, but then though I'd be removing too much info from those lists. ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:33, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More sources[edit]

---Another Believer (Talk) 05:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to rename to Protests and violence in Portland, Oregon[edit]

Since there often has been a relation btwn violence, protests and police response, and seeing as Portand has had at least 67 homicides so far this year (surpassing its previous full-year record of 66 in 1987) and just recently 19 shootings in two days, then perhaps the article could be titled Protests and violence in Portland, Oregon, or is that unfairly linking the two? Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 13:11, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't think demonstrations and violence should be covered together. There are plenty of peaceful demonstrations. Ultimately, there may need to be an article for Crime in Portland, Oregon, which currently redirects to the main article for the city. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:49, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, but rather than another article that overlaps, maybe all such could be merged into a "Civil disturbances in Portland, Oregon" article. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 22:47, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why the opposition to a separate article about crime? Again, I'm not sure protests and civil disturbances or crime should be covered as a single topic. While there are a few "Civil disturbance in ..." articles, there are many more "Crime in ..." entries, so I'd strive for consistency here. I'll let other editors weigh in now, thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:51, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not all civil disturbances are crimes though that those that were related could be a category, yet neither are all protests that of disturbances, so I have no suggestion due the perceived link in the suggested title, nor objection to a crime article. . Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 00:12, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel1212: the statement that "there often has been a relation btwn violence, protests and police response" is one that would really need some evidence before I'd want to consider a title change. Certainly, there have been times the police have attacked protesters, often causing injuries. Certainly, there have been times that people engaged in protest have damaged property, which some would call "violence" and some would not. There have also been instances where violence against people has occurred in varying degrees of connection with protests. There have also been many, many protests (dating to 1857, if we're to believe the Portland Monthly article) that have not a trace of violence.

When we make a broad characterization like this, we try to base it on evidence, not just on our own perceptions. Do you have any source materials you'd like us to consider? -Pete Forsyth (talk) 01:50, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some relation btwn protests, violence, crime and response to police actions is not perception but documented facts by sources cited. However, it seems that you perceive that I am suggesting that these always go together, which they do not and thus I had asked "or is that unfairly linking the two?" Since the perception is yes then consider my suggestions as removed. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 00:12, 29 October 2021 (UTC).[reply]
Sure, there is some connection, but there's also connection to growing mutual aid networks, elections, school policies, suffrage issues, road closures, and any number of other things. Should we title this "Protests, violence, mutual aid, school policy, suffrage, and traffic policy in Portland, Oregon"? Of the 67 murders in 2021, I don't know of a single one that's connected to the protests. I don't object to your bringing it up, I can see that it was a good faith suggestion, but this kind of synthesis is something to avoid. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 21:26, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If a relation has been established, then the issue then becomes to what degree, and import, but rather than another article, I was trying to place civil discord, disturbances and disobedience in one article, though they all are not necessarily related nor crime, and thus said, I drop the (ill-considered) suggestion, sorry. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 19:57, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2021 protests take up what seems an inordinate amount of space.[edit]

More than the section on the 70s and 80s. See WP:RECENTISM. I've rewritten the extremely pov first paragraph added recently which misrepresented the sources, both by only picking certain bits out of what were balanced sources to produce an imbalanced paragraph, and changing "confrontation" (or may it was "confronted" to "assaulted". We are still using a police report which is of course a primary source, for this sort of thing we need independent secondary sources. Doug Weller talk 14:56, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I saw no Twitter report of gas grenades when I cited this, but in eliminating any idea of an assault, you summarily deleted "Portland police reported that Officers discovered numerous items left behind by people inside the perimeter, including a crowbar, hammers, bear spray, slugging weapon with rocks, high impact slingshot, and knives (photos). As the event unfolded, groups formed on the outside and physically challenged officers. Some threw rocks and full cans of beer at officers (photo). Officers deployed some OC (pepper) spray and one impact munition. Arrests were made, including two suspects carrying firearms, wearing body armor and helmets. Thirteen people were charged with crimes[1].
However, I am sure such one-way sanitized removal in the interest of protesters cannot smell of any POV. Have it your way. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 18:19, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "March in Pearl District Ends With Property Destruction, Group Detained (Photo)". Portland Police Bureau. March 13, 2021. Retrieved 14 March 2021.
Portland Police press releases do not meet Wikipedia's WP:RS standard. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 18:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see police reports - and thus government sources - contextually excluded in your source, and which exclusion seems to be your interpretation, while I could cite media sources reporting what the police stated, which should be allowed since Twitter reports indirectly are in WP when cited by media. Grace and peace thru the Lord Jesus (talk) 17:17, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Responding to the general point: I agree, this article should be more of an index to information about protest movements, and it's not useful to detail the specifics of any one day for an article meant to cover a 150+ year period. -Pete Forsyth (talk) 18:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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