Talk:Recruit training in the Israel Defense Forces

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Materials[edit]

Sources for the article:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4261231,00.html

—Ynhockey ^(Talk) 15:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

While the article seems pretty long, it actually doesn't even touch the surface of IDF basic training. I can't write much more because I'm in only one corps (and a jobnik at that), but would appreciate it if editors who are/were in IDF, would write about their basic training courses, and what qualifications are needed for them. -- Ynhockey 12:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete?[edit]

as this is English wikipedia, should Hebrew words such as this be included? ابو علي (Abu Ali) 11:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As this is the English Wikipedia, should Arabic words such as Tawrat and Hajj be included? I think the answer is obvious. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As someone who is going through Tironut...[edit]

Some of this information is inaccurate. I got my Intelligence Corps beret along with the uniform at the first day. Plus, even though I'll only be certified rifleman 02, push-ups and running are very common ways to punish us. It isn't only true for combatants.

Obviously, soldiers with health problems aren't forced to do these things, but the vast majority of soldiers don't have these kind of problems.

Rewrite[edit]

This page is in dire need of a rewrite - its shocking! I'd like to work on it on the next week or two and would appreciate some help...

Nachmore 06:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the article is written fairly well, compared to, for example, the mess which the Hebrew counterpart is. The problem is that it's not complete, as the only person who wrote it (me) has only done tironut in one place, one time. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 14:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, I'd just like to clarify that I didn't mean the style of writing was bad, just that it doesn't do the subject justice - I apologise! My wording was a bit harsh (sorry...). I have checked out the Hebrew - and I won't even comment (although the picture is quite funny :) ). Nachmore 14:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to contribute to this article the best you can. What kind of information are you looking to add? Maybe it's just something that I overlooked and will be able to help you with. Please let me know. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 21:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth I don't think the article is so bad. There's as much detail as anyone could ever really expect to find in a non-Ivrit source. Do any other non-English speaking armies have whole articles dedicated to their basic training? Dino246 21:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Never expected this to escalate into this much - I'll clarify that my main problem was with the "personal experience" section from ~30 years ago that was written shockingly and has now been removed. Nachmore 01:03, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know how much help I can give you[edit]

I went through Basic Training in Golani 30 years ago. I don't know how much it has changed since then. Back then it was quite brutal, humiliation of "toilet people" was common. My platoon leader used to slap people who started crying. One guy at my base committed suicide. Tim the Bald 01:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim the Bald (talk • contribs) 00:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although your personal experience may give you an expert opinion, according to Wikipedia policy on original research you cannot include a personal account in an article. Dino246 01:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately as with most IDF related issues, the hardest part is finding references. I know the protocols and the guidelines but they are all classified. As mentioned above, I'll try to find time to work on a general rewrite and use as much referencing as is openly available on the net. Nachmore 04:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Acceptable research material not available[edit]

Unfortunately, I do not believe there exists among IDF training material instructions on how to administer "Wild punishment all night" (Kadur) and other original punishments which at least were used when I was a recruit. This is all probably based on tradition. Some may even have been taken from the British army, I don't know. However, the intense pressure and punishments are very much a part of basic training, or were, and it is hard to see how this article can be complete without mentioning them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.85.47.11 (talk) 13:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC) Tim the Bald 04:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

contested statement removed[edit]

Other units may swear in at other historical landmarks, such as Ben Gurion's grave or Masada. {{Fact|date=December 2006}}

Please do not return this information to the article without a citation.--BirgitteSB 14:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where exactly can this be citated? My unit swore in the Western Wall, I don't see any possible place for this to be citated. [1] 00:03, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Mistake regarding the ceremony[edit]

The article states that the ending ceremony is when the recruits swear to the IDF. In reality the swearing is much earlier, even a few weeks in, while the large ceremomy of changing the beret ("טקס כומתה") is at the end of training (or a few months in for the special forces). Shilowohl (talk) 06:44, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 March 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. "No one will find it" is not a valid reason for opposing the move. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tironut → Recruit training in the Israel Defense Forces – Recruit training is a generic military concept, not some peculiarity of Judaism that has no correspondence in other cultures. Every language has its own term for nearly everything, and it would be strange to have an article, e.g., Rekrutenausbildung for recruit training in Germany. Loew Galitz (talk) 23:17, 15 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. NW1223 <Howl at me•My hunts> 02:14, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Under such a title, no one seeking this information will ever find it. If anything, it should be "basic training."--Geewhiz (talk) 07:30, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? No one will find it? How about "Recruit training"? And what the heck is "basic training"? For your dog? Loew Galitz (talk) 18:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I find nominator's argument sensible. As for the concern about discoverability, Tironut can continue to exist as a redirect to this page. Colin M (talk) 21:44, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Uniform mistake[edit]

Air force recruits get beige service uniforms and air force berets upon enlisting, and do not wear green service uniforms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.4.167 (talk) 15:40, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]