Talk:Russo (surname)

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False etymology[edit]

This paragraph has no etymological bases:

Russo is a Sicilian name from the Viking tribe Rus, pronounced Roos, who were in Sicily from 800-1100AD. The Byzantines and the Arabs in the Mediterranean and Sicily at that time referred to all Norsemen as Rus. The word sounded like the Latin word for red and therein lies the confusion. The Count of Aidone given land and title to help fight the Arabs in Sicily around 1100 AD added to the confusion because he sometimes Latinized his name to Rosso but he also spelled it Russu. The Greek name Roussos is from the same root. In the Nordic languages it means "He Rows" or "The men who row". This same tribe became the lords of the land that now bears their name Russia.

--Carnby (talk) 13:44, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. In Italy this surname's meaning is plain: a variant of rosso (red) with typical Southern Italian metaphony. No relation to Russia :-) Compare --Actormusicus (talk) 16:39, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Your fabricated understanding removes the factual etymology and replaces it with racist interpretative gymnastics. In no Italian dialect does Russo mean RED, it means RUS. Crrusso (talk) 20:21, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stop saying BS: in southern Italian dialects Russo and similar forms mean "red". There's nothing "racist" in it.--Carnby (talk) 20:38, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed, May 2019[edit]

 – – Fayenatic London 20:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the page about the surname Russo is misleading and full of unnecessary and false informations. Russo is a common italian last name, simply derived from a nickname used to designate people with reddish hair and it does not indicate nobility. Please accept by contributions, I just translated the italian page.

I believe this is the most accurate version. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nomenomenom (talk • contribs) 20:20, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nomenomenom: Wikipedia is not written just based on what you believe; see WP:NOR. It is written based on information that is verifable. If you wish to add information, you need to find citations from WP:RS to support it. You may not remove citations just because you disagree with them. – Fayenatic London 20:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

So, we have a text here added by editor Crrusso with this edit in 2016. Before that our page read "Russo [ˈrusso] is an Italian surname meaning red-haired. Another variant is Rossi (Central and Northern Italy). It is derived from the southern Italian dialect's pronunciation of the nickname "rosso", meaning red in standard Italian". There were no sources.

Crrusso's version is sourced to:

  • www.castellodisperlinga.it: even before this was domain-parked it was nothing like a reliable source; it does not give any etymology for the name Russo
  • Antonino Mango di Casalgerardo (1912–1915). Nobiliario di Sicilia. Palermo: Alberto Reber. – formerly hosted online by the Regione Sicilia; lists Sicilian people of note and/or nobility who had the name Russo, Rosso or Rossi, does not discuss etymology
  • American Heritage Dictionary. Houghton Mifflin. pp. Russia. I don't have this, but have to doubt whether it says anything about the etymology of this Italian name (russo is undeniably the standard Italian for "Russian", as well as for "I snore")
  • www.heraldrysinstitute.com, somebody's site for marketing heraldic "certificates", not conceivably a WP:RS
  • http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/roux – ah, at last a reliable source, and with information on etymology; it tells us that the French roux derives from Latin russus, red. Why am I not surprised?

It seems to me that this is just a whipped-up mousse of WP:OR, with no vestige of a source to support the thesis. I found this:

On page 254 it says that Russo is the southern form of "pan-Italian" Rossi (my comment: the commonest surname in Italy); on page 172 it says that Russo derives from a nickname based on the colour of the beard or hair. It also gives another derivation, but it's off the end of the snippet and I can't access enough of it to get the gist.

It seems to me that our article should say more or less that – or perhaps just be merged to Rossi? Ping Carnby, Fayenatic london, Shellwood, LakesideMiners and Vaselineeeeeeee for comment. Nomenomenom won't be able to respond for a couple of days. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I had forgotten the history of this page. Crrusso's 2016 addition was tidied up like this,[1] removing external links to Wikipedia pages. Mimiddu (talk · contribs) then reverted to "red", here. Ricciardoluigi (talk · contribs) replaced the text in March 2017 with a long claim that Russo means Men who Row, = Norse founders of Russia. Crrusso promptly reinstated his version; Mimiddu reverted; Crrusso reinstated; Justlettersandnumbers removed it; Crrusso reinstated. In 2018 Mimiddu reverted. Ricciardoluigi returned, stating that Russo means Russian, not red, here. Crrusso then promptly reinstated his version, which stayed until Nomenomenom removed it.
Of Ricciardoluigi's citations,
Mimiddu provided Cognomix: origin (red) and stats. – Fayenatic London 21:56, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I too had forgotten it, thanks for the summary, Fayenatic london. I don't see that any of those last three has any claim to be a reliable source – they appear to be just random websites of random companies (Cluster s.r.l., undisclosed name in Canada, Nomix s.r.l. respectively). I've tried without success a search of ISTAT for a table of surnames by frequency, so don't know where Cognimix gets its data. I did find this:
which may be reliable though held in only 24 libraries. On page 117 it derives Russo (and many other similar names) from late Latin russus. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:02, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The present page is completely nonsense. First of all, Russo is not a "Sicilian" surname but is extremely common in all Southern Italy, and also in other parts of Italy due to internal migrations. The surname comes from Vulgar Latin russus/rubius (classical Latin rubeus) meaning 'red (haired)' (Emidio De Felice Dizionario dei cognomi Italiani, Milan, Mondadori, 1988, p. 216-217). In some limited cases it could be also a nobiliar surname, but I have no sources stating it. Cheers.--Carnby (talk) 10:51, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Justlettersandnumbers, Reason why I reverted was that he had been told by other editors to stop and talk it out on the talk page and he was refusing to do so. (also sorry for reverting you by accident Shellwood, I hit the wrong button) LakesideMinersMy Talk Page 17:15, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
According to Focus, the surmane Rossi started to be used in the 12nd century in order to prevent omonimy, like other surnames denoted by phisical traits (Esposito, Mori), the place of birth (Catania, Furlàn, Ferraresi, Romano) or the father's work (Barbieri, Fabbri), given that women can't work. All those elements were passed from a generation to the following and may be adapted to a patriarcal model of society.
Answer.com states a possible origin of the surname, but it is unreferenced. The geographical distribution of the surname Rossi is much more frequent in the centre and north of Italy than in the south (mappadeicognomi.it) .Micheledisaveriosp (talk) 08:49, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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Russo[edit]

This bastardization of the name Russo is a racist form of erasure of a people that were not redheads but had actual origins as Vikings. This is a terrible and inaccurate definition of a people with a prominent, influential history who are now being erased with this revised and false content. It’s also racist as the Northern Italians sought to misrepresent and negate Sicilians. Limamikenovember (talk) 18:19, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

March, 2020[edit]

The evidence provided by Vaselineeeeeeee and Justlettersandnumbers is insufficient as it stands to state that the word, "Russo," means, "red". The very reference cited for this evidence states that Russo may "possibly" mean "red," but moreover, that reference is pure conjecture. The actual definition of "russo," as stated in every dictionary, is the Italian word for, "Russian" (Zanichelli Super Mini Italian and English Dictionary,1993, 231p. American Heritage, 4th Edition, 2001, 731p.) No one is disputing whether or not rosso means red, but rosso and russo are distinctively different words. Every entry preceding this one current makes unsubstantiated claims that the etymology of the term russo arose from a southern-dialect bastardization of the term, rosso. Further, no historical context or chronology is presented in those references. Nonetheless, no Southern Italian dialect refers to the color red as russo. The history of the Viking people coming into Sicily in the 800s, settling in Northern France in the 1100s and then returning as Normans to rule Sicily in the 1500s provides context to the emergence of the word as a surname in the region where it is most frequently found. --Crrusso (talk) 04:45, 27 March 2020 (UTC)Crrusso[reply]

So, Crrusso has again restored the same content that has been repeatedly removed here. Is there any solid reason not to remove it yet again? I'm not seeing any. @Carnby, Fayenatic london, Shellwood, LakesideMiners, and Vaselineeeeeeee: thoughts, comment? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:42, 28 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Carnby, Fayenatic london, Shellwood, LakesideMiners, Vaselineeeeeeee, and Justlettersandnumbers:Yes, I removed the content that claims a dubious definition of the word, one that no other dictionary provides. The word is itself Scandinavian. The reference is to the Vikings who settled the northern Russian Principalities. The Latinized form of the word was absorbed from both the Greeks and Arabs who used it to describe Viking Norseman during the Byzantine era in Italy. Notably, Roussos in Greek also means, "a Russian".

Southern Italian surname Russo means "red haired" or "red bearded". It is the southern counterpart of Central-Northern Rossi. Period. No realiable source in Italian linguistic textbooks says it means "Russian". Besides, Italian surnames indicating a nationality are relatively rare (e.g. Tedeschi, Spagnoli) and usually limited to neighbouring countries.--Carnby (talk) 10:32, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have no stance on this, I only reverted beacaue the user was told to stop and to talk it out on the talk page and had not yet done so. LakesideMinersCome Talk To Me! 11:32, 29 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, Russo and Rossi are not counterparts; the roots of each of these words are different, and unrelated. This claim that the words are the same is patently false. Rus is a Scandinavian word that entered the lexicon from the Byzantines, it’s not Latin. Crrusso (talk) 21:03, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hoax. Russo just means red haired --Actormusicus (talk) 16:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

False etymology[edit]

@carnby is fabricating a tale to suppress actual, factual information. The current entry has no basis in fact, and then continuous editing battle that has ensued is because of @carnby's continuous vandalism to the site. Crrusso (talk) 19:56, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Er, no, Crrusso, the fabricated version is the stuff that Carnby has just removed – the same baseless WP:OR that you have repeatedly added in the last five (or more) years. Please DO NOT add that stuff, with or without its crap references, back to the page, without first establishing firm consensus for doing so. You are of course welcome to attempt to convince other editors by discussion here on this page, the talk-page – good luck with that! Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:16, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Justlettersandnumbers I asked for protection of this page.--Carnby (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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