Talk:Sale, Greater Manchester/Archive 1

Greater Manchester

Article edited to reflect that Sale is officially part of Greater Manchester

JP Joule

I made an edit to say that joule went to Sale Boys Grammar School but this is impossible because Sale Boys was founded in the 1930s and Sale Grammar was founded in the 90s with the merger of the boys and girls grammar

Joule eduction

James Joule ... was educated at Sale Grammar School (Then Sale Boys Grammar School).

Really? Nothing that I have read elsewhere suggests this. Doed someone have a source? Cutler 08:17, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Water sports

I don't know who suggested that Sale "offers some of the finest aquatic sporting facilities in the North West", on the basis of Sale Leisure Centre and LA Fitness (!!), but that's just rubbish. Sale Leisure Centre is nothing to write home about (maybe I'm biased: there was a rampant cockroach infestation last time I was there), every town, village and hamlet has a swanky new gym these days, and before you mention the Water Park, two words: Lake District.

Now if they'd mentioned Dragons...

Democracy

Added list of 5 electoral wards within Sale.

Ceremonial and historic counties

Changed to Greater Manchester and Cheshire, respectively. Sale has never been in Lancashire to my knowledge.

Noticed that Lancashire was added in again today; could the contributor offer even one piece of evidence that Sale was part of Lancashire? This would be news to me, and to most residents I imagine! Aquilina 21:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I believe the River Mersey has always marked the boundary between Lancashire and Cheshire (Sale of course being south of the Mersey) and long before that, the boundary of the ancient kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria. 11:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That fact is as I see it. The Mersey is the historic boundary between the Shires.

More edits

To the author (Squire4):

• Sale is not in Manchester.
• Sale is not and has never been in the county of Lancashire.
• Unsure as to what 'in the city region of Manchester' means, Sale is certainly in the Greater Manchester conurbation, but is certainly not considered part of urban Manchester.
• By 'historic county', it is meant Sale was once part of administrative Cheshire, but still remains in the physical county of Cheshire and has a strong identity with Cheshire.
• The majority of addresses in Sale use 'Cheshire', not 'Lancashire'. Personally, the use of 'Lancashire' in a Sale address is completely wrong and unheard of.

---

'Note that the LGA 1972 did not do anything to the historic Counties of Britain. It only abolished the administrative counties and county boroughs. The Government was (and still is) happy to confirm that the Counties themselves were unaffected...'

"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974), http://www.abcounties.co.uk/newgaz/cen.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.173.56 (talk • contribs)

---

09:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC) But what is trying to be defended here. Sale is in essence a Manchester dormitory and is not a place miles away from Manchester centre! Its no different in the M'cr context than say Droylsden/Eccles/Prestwich etc.,get real!!! Nway,Sale has a strong identity with Manchester AND YOU KNOW THAT.Utterrubbish.Writing Cheshire on the address fools nobody, its a 'ST PETERS SQUARE TRAM USERS' way of trying to put daylight between him/herself and a fellow commuter who alights @ Stretford. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Squire4 (talk • contribs)

---

All what was being said was that Sale was and has never been in Manchester or Lancashire. Manchester is a clearly defined place with clearly defined borders and calling Sale a Manchester town is frankly wrong. You've just proved your ignorance further, as both Eccles and Prestwich are in Salford, not Manchester and Droylsden being in Tameside. This is an Encyclopedia, it is supposed to consist of facts, not popular misunderstandings. Also, do not edit people's messages, it is extremely rude, instead reply to them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christrafford (talk • contribs)

---

SALE This township or civil parish was in Cheshire. It was in Ashton upon Mersey ecclesiastical parish and in Bucklow poor law Union (which' was called Altrincham Union until 1895). In 1867 Sale Local Board of Health was established for the area of the township. In 1894 the area of the Board became an Urban District. In 1908 a very small part of it was added to Ashton upon Mersey Urban District in widening a road for tramways. In 1930 Ashton upon Mersey Urban District was added to it. In 1935 Sale Urban District became a Municipal Borough. In 1936 a very small part of Timperley civil parish was added to the Borough. In 1974 it became part of Trafford Metropolitan Borough.

Therefore, Sale is not 'in' Manchester, however, it is, since the re-shuffle of local government in 1974, 'in' the administrative county of Greater Manchester, 'in' the Historic County of Cheshire. 80.192.242.187 11:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC) JemmyH.

---

First things first: please sign your posts by writing ~~~~ at the end before you save. This is so that all comments are stamped with your username and time so that people coming later can follow the discussion.

By all means, the proximity of Sale to Manchester can and should be mentioned, and it's status as a commuter town and part of Greater Manchester noted. However, this does not rewrite the previous 500 years history in which the town has been part of Cheshire. Just because enough people drive to work up the the A56 does not magically move the Lancashire border ten miles south of the River Mersey. Sale has about as much to do with Lancashire as Halifax does.

Secondly Sale has a town hall. It has a town centre. It has had it's own council since 1894, and has never been administered from Manchester directly. It's even outside the M60. It waddles like a town, it quacks like a town, therefore it is a town - as much as Rochdale, Stockport and Hyde are.

When it comes down to it, this is an encyclopaedia. There is no great conspiracy to keep Sale house prices up on Wikipedia! All the documentary evidence and history points to this. Even saying "but people say it's part of Manchester" is not enough here. If you can find reliable, verifiable sources that Sale is either a de facto or even de jure part of the city of Manchester, then the article will have to be changed. Until then, it stands correct, and it might be worth reading the articles at History of Cheshire, List of post towns in the United Kingdom, Administrative counties of England and Subdivisions of the United Kingdom to get more understanding of the background. But most of all, have a look at WP:CITE. Aquilina 17:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

References

I've added a couple of references for population and etymology. If any one cares to go through the Trafford site at http://www.trafford.gov.uk/cme/live/cme3171.htm they could probably extract ward stats, but I couldn't find where the figures on here were taken from. Also, if anyone feels like writing up the early history, there is some good info here http://www.luso.u-net.com/sale1.htm - SWAHILLI --62.3.249.70 00:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

St Paul's Sale website

Please could you add a link on your Sale, Greater Manchester page to the St Paul's Church website It is :

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/rodney.hadwen/stpauls/

Thank you Stpaulsale 10:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Added to the links section.

Bobfos 11:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)