Talk:Santa's Little Helper/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: J Milburn (talk) 13:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

"In "Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" (season one, 1989), Homer discovers that he has no money to buy Christmas presents for the family." I think it's worth reclarifying in this sentence that it's the first episode, and the first appearance of SLP
- Y Added that it was the first episode, the rest belongs in the Creation section. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Santa's Little Helper has produced several offspring." Odd phrase. Fathered several puppies?
- Y Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to be a little bit too much repetition of "the dog" in the role section
- Hmm... I can't say I agree. I've tried to mix "Santa's Little Helper", "the dog", and "he/his" as much as I can. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Santa's Little Helper has been forced to leave the Simpson family several times." Unreferenced, not really seeing how these occasions are different from the previous times he left the family.
- Y Removed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Simpsons are forced to give Santa's Little Helper away to an ostrich farm" By whom?
- Y Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little concerned about the fact that a lot of the information you're including in the role section is referenced to episodes themselves- I'd quite like to see some reliable sources outlining the significance of these events to the character/show.
"from Barbara Woodhouse's authoritarian training methods [in 'Bart's Dog Gets an F'] to Lassie's flawless service to the status quo." Are the square brackets yours? If so, speech marks? Also, could we have the episode the Lassie reference refers to?
- Yes, they are mine. I added the Lassie episode. But can I really use speech marks within speech marks? Theleftorium ^(talk) 19:29, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Within square brackets, I don't see why not. I can't see anything about it in the MoS- I'll dig out a punctuation guide tomorrow. J Milburn (talk) 19:58, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"that he liked doing Santa's Little Helper" Not a great phrase
- Y Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:20, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The "sounds" section feels like it's in the wrong order- I get to the end and Welker's in my head, when it's Castenella who now voices SLP
- Y Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:20, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Other dogs featured on the list were Lassie (first), Eddie (fifth), Snoopy (sixth), Scooby-Doo (13th), Rin Tin Tin (14th), Max (20th), Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog (24th), Buck (29th), Chipper (44th), and Tiger (50th).[27]" Why list these specific dogs? Why bother listing any others bu t the winner at all?
- It helps readers get a better understanding of his popularity. This way you can compare him to other television dogs. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Why choose those particular ones? Why not the top five? J Milburn (talk) 18:47, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Because those are all the dogs on the list (and also the only ones that the source mention). Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Fair. Sorry, I was thinking it was a list of dogs, not just animals. Yep, that works. J Milburn (talk) 20:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"after having his legs broken by Mr. Burns" When did this happen? It's not been mentioned yet
The long quote from Rabin certainly has a place in the article, but perhaps it could be formatted as a blockquote and the wikilinks removed?
- Y Done. Theleftorium ^(talk) 19:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the paragraph on his stupidity belongs in the role section? Perhaps the development section? It's not really anything to do with the reception, it's a fact about the character
- Y Moved. Theleftorium ^(talk) 19:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Santa's Little Helper has made an impact on real life in that a dog walking and pet sitting company in New York City, called "Santa's Little Helper Dog Walking and Pet Sitting", has been named after him.[36]" That's a bit of a boring fact to open with
- What fact should I open with then? Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Repetition of "appeared" in the influence section
- It's only used three times. Do you have any suggestions on how I can reword it? Because I can't think of anything. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:35, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Did he play a part in the movie? Worth mentioning?
- Y He appeared briefly. I added a small mention. Theleftorium ^(talk) 18:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References (some very picky)

""Santa's Little Helper". The Simpsons.com. Retrieved 2011-08-16." Remove space?
Refs 16-19, 21, 24 have odd italics
"^ Ellem, Ryan (2005-10-29). "All Creatures Great And Small - Purr-fect cover for vet bills". The Gold Coast Bulletin: p. 060." Odd caps. At the very least, decap "And"
"^ a b c "Ask Frank". The Frank Welker Homepage (official website). Retrieved 2011-08-14." Listing an author would be good- would also allow a link
"^ Rabin, Nathan (2010-12-16). "'Bart's Dog Gets An F'". The A.V. Club. Retrieved 2011-08-14." Again, not nice caps- at least remove the caps from "An"
"^ Harris, Craig (2001-04-24). "The Simpsons: Night of the Living Treehouse of Horror Review". IGN. Retrieved 2011-01-07." Remove the caps from "Review"
"Harris, Craig (2007-09-05). "The Simpsons: Mr. Sparkle Hands-On". IGN. Retrieved 2011-01-07." Caps
- Y All done. Theleftorium ^(talk) 14:58, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Generally

Sourcing are reliable, pics are appropriate and stability is good. The article's a good one, not too far from GA status, but I would like to see some reliable sources illustrating the significance of the specific episodes you mentioned to the character. I note that there are some repeat mentions of the episodes further down- these would be appropriate. I hope I'm making clear what I'm requesting. J Milburn (talk) 14:09, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Second look through[edit]

I'm taking a second read through. I've noted your replies above. J Milburn (talk) 15:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking a hatnote, linking to something like Christmas elf, may be useful.
"He can often be seen on the show in minor appearances, although there have been some episodes that feature him heavily." I'd remove this line, and replace it with something leading into the next line about his introduction.
- I rewrote it a bit, but I think it's important to keep the "there have been some episodes that feature him heavily" part since that kind of defines the scope of the section (see my comment below). Theleftorium ^(talk) 16:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"repo men" Not a very familiar term
I'm still a little concerned about the lack of secondary sources asserting the importance of those story lines, but I think it's perhaps something that can be overlooked at GA level. I suppose there has to be a degree of judgement from the writers of the article as to what is worth including.
- Well, the only episodes included are the ones that revolve around Santa's Little Helper (except "Today I Am a Clown", but that's just a one-sentence mention). I don't think there should be a problem with that. Theleftorium ^(talk) 16:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"In her 2004 book Dog, Ph.D. Susan McHugh noted that" I'm not sure we need to mention that she has a PhD, but a couple of words saying who she is (dog researcher? Dog expert? Naturalist? I don't know) would be good as an alternative
"methods [in 'Bart's Dog Gets an F'] to Lassie's flawless service to the status quo [in 'The Canine Mutiny']."" Again, speech marks would be good. If you're concerned about speech marks in speech marks, perhaps do not directly quote?
The structure of the "sounds" para still doesn't strike me as quite right
In the influence section, how about switching the two paras, and mentioning the espresso before the dog walkers? Closing with the magazine cover works.

It's not looking at all bad. J Milburn (talk) 15:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again! :) I think I've fixed everything (except perhaps the points I replied to). Theleftorium ^(talk) 16:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, that's done it. I think this is one that could hit FA status, if you're interested. Third party sources for the Role section, as I mentioned above, would be a good first step- after that, a peer review and a copyedit, to pick up anything I've missed, and this one might have a shot. In any case, I'm promoting now. Good work! J Milburn (talk) 17:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for the great review! Theleftorium ^(talk) 17:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]