Talk:Sardinian language

Cleanup needed

moved here from article

This article most definitely needs some cleaning-up. I would do it myself, but I am wanting for skills in that area. (whoever wrote this article probably didn't notice how it says use sparingly in the alt-text for the horizonal line button. Some of the language is a bit up-messed as well.--Node ue 19:34, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Which language?

I don't understand: did the employer at the Alghero airport speak in Catalan or in Sardinian? I know Sardinian is the language of Sardinia and Catalan the language of Alghero (together with Sardinian and Italian). Which one was used? - Marco Neves

"Sardinian Catalan" implies Catalan of the variety spoken on Sardinia (at Alghero), where "Sardinian" is a proper spatial adjective modifying the noun "Catalan". So yes, it refers presumably to Alguerese (as may also be inferred by the article to which it links)--Node ue 19:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The anecdote is nevertheless confusing: what does the reaction to Catalan prove about the social status of Sardinian? FilipeS 20:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

"No single Sardinian language"?

"There is no single Sardinian language"? That is not why I've heard. Yes, there are many languages and dialects used on Sardinia, but AFAIK one of them is actually called the "Sardinian language". --SJK

Yes indeed. Perhaps this was referring to the fact that some Sardinian dialect groups refer to the northern dialect groups as "Sardinian" but do not include themselves in that distinction.--Node ue 19:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

There is ONE Sardinian Language, Su Sardu, shared into two main dialect families, children idioms of mother tongue. These are Logudorese (Central North) and Campidanese (South). Besides, on the North there is Gallurese which is also relevant.

Funny, this was essentially the sense of Prof. Blasco Ferrer's studies: one Language, 2 main dialects.

Sardinian Language has recently been recognised as an official regional language by Sardinian Special Region, therefore it can be used for official purposes (in the island only).

I invite the editors of this page (2 dialects of Sardinian!) and the ones who claimed that the Southern dialects of Sardinian are influenced by Italian dialects to have a look at my book "Sardegna fra tante lingue", Condaghes, 2005 (with Wilbert Heeringa). On the base of state of the art computational linguistics we reject all such clichés, and show they are all based on old prejudices. (Roberto Bolognesi)

Origins

As for origins, Sardinian comes from unknown roots possibly directly leading to sanscrite, then influenced by phenician, etruscan and widely filtered by latin. It is indeed a romance language.

Sardinian does not come from unknown roots. It does not lead directly to the Sanskrit language. It is a Romance language with minor influences from Phoenician, Etruscan, Catalan, Spanish, and most recently Italian and English. There is, however, arguably a linguistic substratum remaining from the language of the original population.--Node ue 19:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Corsican

Some people, in recent times, is suggesting that corsican language would be spoken in some towns of Sardinia. Since this is neither what I can find in my sources, nor what my Sardinian friends were able to confirm me from site, I'd be glad to eventually read some sources, or to see that these statements are not any more happily added to articles on sardinian villages. Thank you. Gianfranco

Supposedly, some of the dialects of the very northernmost areas of Sardinian are indeed Corsican or very closely resembling Corsican, see Limba Sarda - Carta de sas Limbas de s'Isolas Sardinnas. I'm just giving an explanation, though; I'm not responsible for edits of that nature.--Node ue 19:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I`ve noticed cúcuru cucuredhu means 'pinnacle', 'mound' . It`s quite interesting because in Romanian we have "cucuruz" -meaning corn (the shape of corn being conic), cucui - lump on the head , cucuiet/cucuiat - horned ,stubborn, birds who have a crest on the head. cocoş - rooster , etc . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.52.225.123 (talk) 16:45, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

"Proparossitones"?

What are "proparossitones"? A Google search for this word turned up only this page. -phma

Presumably that is an Italian or Sardinian word. I'm tempted to say "prepositions" but that is most likely an incorrect translation.--Node ue 19:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Why do you propose a translation when you think it's wrong? There is something called a dictionary. --2.245.133.120 (talk) 14:37, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Proparossitones is the Italian spelling of "proparoxytones", which are words stressed on the antepenultimate syllable (e.g., English "inCARcerate"). "Paroxytones" are stressed on the next-to-last syllable and oxytones on the last. MTCicero 17:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Sardo Laguterese

Is the Sardinian language different from Sardo Laguterese? If it is, perhaps this could be discussed in the article. I am wondering because there is an article for Sardo Laguterese, and there is an article for Sardinian, and neither article makes a reference to the other.

I can't find the article to which you are referring. Perhaps it is referring to Loguodorese (a dialect of Sardinian)?--Node ue 19:27, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Nothing to share between Corsica and Sardinia?

It's strange to read in this article that is few to share between these two islands: they have been occupied by the same town (Pisa), a town where the language spoken is italian (tuscanian), and they have been occupied together also by Aragon (catalan speakers). Is it not enough to understand why the northern region of Sardinia speaks a language that I understand without any difficulty? And that is very close to the dialects spoken in Sartene and Porto Vecchio. Sassari and Tempio are not on the opposite of the world. --Enzino 19:22, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Looking into the proximity between Northern dialects of Sardinia and Corsican, I read recently (in French) Des Langues romanes (Jean-Marie Klinkenberg, a very good specialist of Université de Liège, Belgium). He considers, without any doubt, that these two dialects are Tuscany dialects (from Pisa) for these main reasons : plural with -i (and not -s as in Logudorese and Campidanese), the same articles a and u of Corsican (and not sa and su as in proper Sardinian. Of course, these 2 dialects are also influenced by proper Sardinian (and even Corsican of Corsica is somehow influenced by Sardinian!). One word, very caracteristic, is Ajò, common to both Islanders (an interjection, very common, something like go!, so! isn't? ...). Enzino 21:37, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sardu is a lenguage, yes in alghero speack catalan, but is the only town where is spoken. Sardu is more different to corso, becuase Corso is a middle of Sardu and a Middle of French. Socrate04.

Not at all. Coriscan is not middle of something. Just a variety of Italian. And two different Sardinian languages are spoken. The true ones, in the center and in the south of Sardinia. And a variety of Corsican, in Gallura and Sassarese. Please, refer to good books, not opinions. Enzino.

Enzino, there is "no Corsican language" in Sardinia. This is an old bulls never proved. On the contrary, we cannot forget that the Sardinians colonised the island of Corse spreading their language and culture ever since the Pre-Roman Era. This fact is proved by archaeological and historical evidences. The recent influences do not demonstrate any origin of the language. So it is wrong to say: in Sardinia the Corsican is still spoken. Stephan 1:10, 30 Dec 2006 (UTC)

It's not right. Linguistically, gallurese and sassarese are corsican dialects, and not sardinian ones, even with a relevant sardinian influence. There was a hard connection between corsican and sardinian cultures in prehistoric age, but after middle age (up to 18th century) was predominant the migration from Corsica to Northern Sardinia, creating the galllurese-sassarese corsican dialects. --Dch 13:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh yes, Gallurese is a (south)corsican dialect, influenced by italian and sardinian! Sassarese is a mix between italian, corsican, sardinian. This is linguistics, the rest is science fiction

Orthography

It's nice to know about the phonology of the language, but what about the orthography? There is virtually no information about it. Which phonemes respond to which spellings? (For instance, how are /tz/ and /z/ different?) Also, perhaps the pronunciations should be promoted to International Phonetic Alphabet symbols. - Gilgamesh 02:35, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

• There is no official orthography. Just write anything you want, even gibberish, and you can tell people "Oh cutsu testu est stetiu scrivviu in sa lingua srada, ma impera otrogarfia orizniale presnoale mea". And theyll be all like "but... uhh... ...". If they say "It's not Sardinian!" just say "Oh, it's a really neat orthography. Plus it represents my dialect. So letters like "q" represent vowels, you know. Just not what youd expect".

• Ahh, and when somebody tells me my Sardinian is weird: well, since there is no standard Sardinian, and lots of Sardinian dialects have that weird thing where letters switch from Latin unpredictably, I have a RIGHT to say "srada" and "otrogarfia" instead of "sarda" and "ortografia"! Like on dmoz how it says "crabonia" instead of "carbonia".........

Oh yes, Gallurese is a (south)corsican dialect, influenced by italian and sardinian! Sassarese is a mix between italian, corsican, sardinian. This is linguistics, the rest is science fiction

OSV

From Object Subject Verb: Sardinians very often use OSV while speaking in Italian.

From Yoda: For Italian fans of the Star Wars series, especially children, Yoda is often referred as "The Sardinian One" or "The One Who Speaks Sardinian". This is due to the fact that once translated into Italian, Yoda's manner of speaking is very close to the Sardinian accent that in Italy is considered humorous, even slightly ridiculous.

If true, this should added.

This is false and offensive. It is a form of raccism. Stephan 1:12, 30 Dec 2006 (UTC)

Su Sardu esti sa cosa pru bella chi c'esti in sa sardinia.Nobu tenemmu unu mari chi esti pru bellu de cussu, comenti si narara, de s'Hawai. A nobu po su mari non ci batti nisciuno.Grazia po su ascurtu e a tottusu nu bonu mari.

Here we go again! Anyone can write on Wikipedia and these are the results: OSV in Sardinian. This is really taken from Star Wars: i.e. science fiction! Instead, you should have a look at "Sardinia Syntax" (Michael Allan Jones, Routeledge, 1993) where the phenomenon is called "fronting" and consists of the left-dislocation of the focussed item in a yes/no question or in an emphatic statement. (Roberto Bolognesi)

etymology...

Who told u about this "fun" etymology of the word "barbaro"? where did u read it??? It is so false! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.163.215.74 (talk) 07:14, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

Barbaro is a word from ancient greek. Ό βάρβαρος-ου. It means stuttering because the people that weren't greek couldn't speak greek language well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.49.29.177 (talk) 17:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

My greek teacher always told us that the word βάρβαρος came from the fact that the language of these invaders sounded to Greek ears like "bar bar bar bar". Thus it is an onomatopoetic exonym of a non-flattering nature. Peace, Dusty|💬|You can help! 20:09, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Eduardo Blasco Ferrer

Someone made the following remark in the main page. I'm moving it here. FilipeS 14:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Eduardo Blasco Ferrer: Mensching, 1969 --Not possible; Blasco Ferrer would have been 13 years old in 1969. (See also his curriculum vitae published online)

ll > dd

I'm no expert, but it seems to me the Sardinian transformation of Latin "ll" into a retroflex "dd" (For example: bellus > [ˈbeɖ.ɖu]) and the retention of "u" is not unique to Sardinian. It seems the same is true of Sicilian and Calabrian, no? Dionix (talk) 17:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Basque

Why the rather odd reference to Basque in the Cagliari d/r alternation? That's an incredibly common alternation in languages in general. Akerbeltz (talk) 14:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Nugoresu

Hello. It seems Nugoresu is a language (dialect ?) near to Sardinian. Do you know what it is exactly? This name does not appear in this article. Pamputt (talk) 14:48, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Look at the map, it's part of the northern dialect group (Nugoro/Nuoro). I agree it would be helpful to explain the traditional dialect names. Akerbeltz (talk) 16:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Origin of eya ("yes")?

The Langues d'oil article reads in part . . .

By late- or post-Roman times Vulgar Latin had developed two distinctive terms for signifying assent (yes): hoc ille ("this (is) it") and hoc ("this"), which became oïl and oc, respectively. Subsequent development changed "oïl" into "oui", as in modern French . . . . Other Romance languages derive their word for "yes" from the classical Latin sic, "thus", such as the Italian sì, Spanish and Catalan sí, Portuguese sim, and even French si (used when contradicting another's negative assertion). Sardinian is an exception in that its word for "yes", eya, is from neither origin."

I was curious to learn what the origin of eya might be, but found no mention of it in this article. Given the word's prominence and uniqueness, might this be added to the article? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.90 (talk) 08:22, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

A quick look into Wagner tells me there are two words, emmo (Log.) and ey ey or eya (Nuor.); for both the etymology seems to be obscure but eya is linked to Italian forms like Lombardic èj, Tuscan ei ei or Neapolitan è è. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:00, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Since my initial query above, a relative who passed through the Suez canal and resided briefly in and near Aden about 50-odd years ago has told me that "Arabic" (presumably he encountered versions of the language in Malta, Egypt and Yemen) has a similar sounding word meaning yes. Googling yields a number of different words for yes in various local versions of Arabic, and at least a couple do seem to be similar to eya. Is an Arabic origin plausible? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.179 (talk) 19:49, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Unless you find a credible source, not on this page. As for idle speculation, you need to establish why the language would borrow this word, if it had the opportunity and that it conforms with the historical development of the language, ideally demonstrating borrowing patterns, not just a single word part which could be random coincidence. My gut feeling is, random coincidence. Akerbeltz (talk) 21:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't proposing to add anything myself; rather, I was hoping that someone else knew the answer (and a suitable reference source) and might do so :-). Given the relative proximity of Arabian-speaking regions, and the Arabic language of not-too-distant Malta, (not to mention my ignorance of the Italian forms you mention), it seemed to me that an Arabic origin was a possibility.

Presumably those Italian forms may derive from the "ille" of "hoc ille"? If so, the assertion of Sardinian's anomaly in the Langues d'oil article may be mistaken. Either way, I feel that the latter's reference to "eya" (while it remains) ought to be complemented by a mention in this article.

On the subject of cross-language borrowings in general, I suspect that sometimes these may have been whimsical fads which have caught on, much as English people who have lived in Germany sometimes say "Gesundheit!" instead of "Bless you!" to the extent that the former is generally understood. (I realise that a parallel adoption via Yiddish may have occurred, but I have direct personal experience of the former process.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.79.243 (talk) 22:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find time to put something in. I can't say anything about the Italian forms - this is definitely not my patch ;) Maltese uses "iva" which looks an ulikely candidate but we would have to compare historical forms anyway, not modern surface forms. Yes, sometimes borrowings are "whimsical" as you put it but they usually require significant contact. And Gesundheit is definitely reinforced by Yiddish. Akerbeltz (talk) 00:16, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Just a word on emmo/emmu: It is generally suspected to descend from Latin immo, but the vocalism is puzzling. Sardinian seems to be the only Romance language to preserve this word, which seems to exclude the possibility of Western Romance influence in this case. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 13:53, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

No Phoenician influence?

Funny how the section "History and origins" doesn't even contain a single mention of Phoenician-Punic or the Carthaginians, although this is the only pre-Roman stratum that is historically absolutely certain to have been present on Sardinia before and at the time of the Roman conquest – and there are even a few lexical examples where Phoenician origin is suggested in the preceding section! (More importantly even, it is assumed that Punic was spoken on Sardinia for many centuries longer.) Instead, we get all kinds of speculation about Iberians, Basques, Etruscans and even Illyrians (!), none of whose languages have been shown conclusively to have influenced Sardinian (all the justification rests on dubious – though admittedly, occasionally suggestive, as in some Basque echoes – etymologies), while in the case of Phoenician-Punic, there's a language we know reasonably well (better than all the others for the time, anyway, especially if we take into account our knowledge of Canaanite as a whole), and where the assumption of influence is absolutely justified from what we know about the languages of ancient Sardinia, only to be omitted from the picture utterly and completely. I find it hard to believe that this aspect has never been seriously touched upon in the literature on the problem of the pre-Roman Sardinian substrates. So, where are the Phoenicians? This gap in the section is boggling my mind. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 16:51, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Imho, you should ask to yourself who Phoenicians are and who they find in Sardinia when they arrived on the island. Somebody says that Phoenicians and Nuragic people they were part of the Sea people. The Nuragic civilization was the most advanced of any civilization in the western Mediterranean during the Sea Peoples epoch, including those in the regions of Magna Graecia. Can be that Phoenicians they were speaking a sardinian language. Why not? :-)--93.45.60.12 (talk) 19:06, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand what you're trying to say at all. When the Phoenicians arrived on Sardinia and established colonies there, of course they would have brought their native Phoenician along with them, which we know is a Semitic language. On the other hand, Sardinian is clearly not a Semitic language. Therefore, a Phoenician-Semitic substratum is to be expected, especially if Phoenician – in its Late Punic form – survived until even after the Roman conquest. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:21, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Phoenicians have built 4 colonies in the southern sardinian coasts, only few toponomies in the south area of the island have phoenician influence. Phoenician influence in Sardinia is continuously overrated by stangers. Should Chinese people speak an english influenced language because british people built a colony in Hong Kong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codex1985 (talk • contribs) 15:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Did I miss something?

Logudurese and Campidanese got moved from dialects to Campidanese language and Logudorese language. Did a debate on that take place elsewhere cause it's the first time I've heard of these varieties being elevated to language status by linguists or indeed Sardinians. Anyone know? Akerbeltz (talk) 17:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I moved them because they were at non-English names (Logudorese got moved there today, that's why I saw it). The "language" part mainly came from a consistency with the two other varieties (sometimes considered) Sardinian, Gallurese and Sassarese, together with that I thought(well, think) these to be unintelligible (which I got via reading WP and a few links, and which is supported by their fairly low lexical similarity between them, according to Ethnologue; but which isn't as obvious from reading the article(s) as I thought, it seems). --JorisvS (talk) 18:20, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I haven't heard of Gallurese and Sassarese being labelled languages either to be honest. Do we have any refs that support the "language" label for any of them? Akerbeltz (talk) 17:32, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

"Campidanese is quite distinct from the other Sardinian languages"[1], Sassarese is in a WP incubator[2], [3] speaks of "three Sardinian languages" and later has Sardinian N, C, and L (apparently also treating Nuorese independently), and Googling "X language" gives quite a few hits, though not very staggering amounts. While [4] treats Sardinian as a unit (language), it does say "... that now Campidanese people can hardly understand Nuorese speakers from the region of Barbagia.". [5] says "In almost no case the unity of Sardinian has been denied. The problem lies on the profound differences between the two main dialects of the Sardinian language. I would dare to say that the mutual understanding between northern and southern Sardinian speakers is worse than between speakers of Galician and Portuguese.". The thing that was easiest to find was the fact that there are profound differences between Sardinian varieties. So while most prefer to view Sardinian as a unit, there is some ground. --JorisvS (talk) 19:12, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

That Ethnologue link is ambiguous, given the existence of Catalan and Ligurian on the island I'd say and that fact it's on incubator does not necessarily make it a language (versus a dialect). I'm not a dialect basher, on the contrary, but given the paucity of evidence and the fact that according virtually all documents (academic and popular) I've read Sardinians view (perhaps with the exlusion of Gallurese) Sardinian as one language with diverging dialects makes me think this move is premature. Sardinian (excluding Gallurese) is no more divergent than Basque dialects were before the introduction of Standard Basque and mass media across all regions. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Note that we apparently also have Tuscan language. --JorisvS (talk) 10:11, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes but it would not appear that there seem to be any question about Tuscan and, say, Romagnolo being debated as subdialects of Tuscan. Whichever source I look at, it has Sardinian as one language. So for I really think there is no case for Nuorese and Campidanese being labelled as languages. And given there seems to be no other page by that name, it would be a safer bet to have Gallurese and Sassarese just like that, without a language or dialect label. Akerbeltz (talk) 12:34, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Looking at the Sardinian Wiki, they state Sos limbistas partzint su sardu in duas bariedades fundamentales: su logudoresu-nugoresu e su campidanesu. Su galluresu (cossu), s'aligheresu (catalanu) e su tabarchinu (ligurinu) no sunt dialetos sardos. Which means they view it as a language with two main subvarieties but clearly exclude Gallurese as being "Corsican". Akerbeltz (talk) 12:39, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Sardinian Wiki is, to say the least, neglected: not exactly a good source, it's better to look at the italian one. Even the sassarese language is absolutely not part of Sardinian language and it is very difficult (impossible?) consider it part of the Corsican language, because of some "small" differences and 7-8 centuries (!) of independent evolution. Therefore, it is a separate language. For the Logudorese/Nuorese/Campidanese is an hard choice because there are many sources for all the theses (dialects, variants, independent languages) and very heavy political interferences... good luck! --Felisopus (talk) 14:03, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I am a user of the Sardinian wiki, and the article clearly says that Gallurese (Corsican), Algherese (Catalan), Tabarchino (Ligurian) are considered to be part of the languages of Sardinia rather than to be part of the Sardinian language.. Actually, I sincerely don't understand why Sardinian would be divided into the "Sardinian proper" and the "Corso-Sardinian dialects", being separate languages with Corsican and Sardinian influences, and the choice to elevate the two (three?) main "Sardinian proper" varieties to a language status! It's a mess, for wich people are going to get confused about. Therefore, I'd say it's better to rename these pages with the title of "Campidanese Sardinian" and "Logudorese Sardinian".. Sardinian language is no more divergent than many minority languages were/are, as someone said. Sorry for my ugly English, saludos - Dk

Narrow vs Broad transcription

Hi, I was wondering myself why do you use a broad transcription for /b d g/-lenition in Sardinian... Is there really a difference between Sardinian and Iberian lenitions? Jɑυмe (xarrades) 00:13, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Algherese (Catalan) is not sardinian

this sentence is out of place in this article being Algherese a catalan dialect and not a Sardinian dialect: "The debate as to its legality had become heated by the 1980s: at Alghero's Fertilia international airport, in a Sardinian Catalan-speaking area, a politically engaged employee of Alitalia was heard over the loudspeakers, provocatively announcing the flights in Italian, English and Algherese. The employee was fired and penally condemned, causing widespread Sardinian nationalist sentiment, sometimes including violent political disputes which finally led to the law officialising the language." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.10.229.37 (talk) 00:09, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

nav popups not working?

technical question with this article - are nav popups deactivated here? curious why? Dog-Patch Zero-Six (talk) 14:08, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

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Massive reFill

I did a massive reFill on this page. Could anyone here check if all the filled links were done right? I would like to think so, but since it's semi-manual tool I would like to assume there might possibly be some reference issues on the page that still exist. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 02:34, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

@Lotje: Since you were involved in this, I would like a bit of feedback on how this reFill process was done. I noticed you made some nice fixes to the massive reFill processings. :) Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 00:38, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

@Qwertyxp2000:, thanks for your contribution. ReFill tool is a wonderful tool (when it is not down ). The result looks fine to me. Wondering though why sometimes the option website is added and sometimes not :-) Lotje (talk) 11:36, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 05:06, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Problem when viewing the page

When I am on another page, like for example Paleo-Sardinian language or List of ISO 639-1 codes and I see this article wikilinked, it shows (when I hover my mouse over it) the window, but it says "| belowclass = noprint selfref | belowstyle = background-color:#E7E7FF;padding:0.3em 0.5em;text-align:left;line-height:1.3; | below = This article contains IPA phonetic symbols. Without proper rendering support, you may see question marks, boxes, or other symbols instead of Unicode characters. For an" I am not sure where this problem is coming from, and how to fix it. Therefore, if anyone knows how, please do, thanks!

- RandomEditorAAA (talk) 01:04, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Opening section too big

That opening bit is way, way too long. After reading it, I don't feel I really need to read anything else in the page. Save some mystery for the peeps. Spiel (talk) 05:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

@Spiel: I disagree; the opening section gathers little information compared to the rest of the article, so that's fine. JackkBrown (talk) 10:50, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Template "Good article"

This page is really very well done and complete. I propose the addition of the template "Good article". JackkBrown (talk) 10:51, 28 December 2023 (UTC)