Talk:Second Battle of the Somme

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“The second battle began on August 21 with the opening of the Battle of Bapaume to the north of the river itself. That developed into an advance on a broad front, about 40 miles wide, from south of Douai to La Fère, south of Saint-Quentin, Aisne” That statement is not right. La Fere was in the Hindenburg line and farther north, Douai was east of that line. On August 21 at the battle at Bapaume the front extended from Arras, which is west of Douai, and down to Noyan, which is west of La Fere.

“On the way, the earthworks of the incomplete Canal du Nord and the defences of Péronne were overcome.” Thats a bit like saying that Texans, on the way to Florida, go through New York. The Canal du Nord, farther north, was breached by the Canadians with the British First Army on September 27.

No the policy did not work.There was never a Campaign that began with the battle of Bapaume which included the St. Mihiel battle. The Somme strategy was not to push the Germans behind its strategic railway because it was behind the Hindenburg position. The distant objectives of cutting the rail supply lines were part of the strategy when the British were confronting the Hindenburg line but the strategy more than a month earlier had nothing to do with that later objective.The St. Mihiel salient was only to be reduced to free the French lines of communication and was not to press on to the strategic railway at Metz. After the Germans withdrew and the salient was eliminated the Americans held the line at the base of the salient in front of the Michel portion of the Hindenburg line and that was it until the last days of the war. There was no German advance in the spring in this area and therefore they were not well in advance of the Hindenburg line. After the breach of the Hindenburg line at the beginning of October by the British the objectives of cutting the lines were not quickly achieved because of the exhaustion of the British Armies at this point and the tenacious rear guard actions of the Germans. When the American army had finally breached their part of the Hindenburg line at the end of October the Germans had already been forced to withdraw far enough back by the other Allied Armies, the British had by that time rested and pressed on, that by the time their rail lines were threatened on all fronts they were saved by the bell.

There was however a counter offensive decision at the end of July to free three rail routes that did succeed. The Paris to Verdun rail to be achieved by the on going French counter offensive started in July, the Paris to Amiens rail by Haig’s proposed Amiens offensive and the Verdun to Arricourt rail by the reduction of the St. Mihiel Salient. Brocky44 05:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

<so if the New Zealanders took Bapaume why doesn't their flag appear on the right hand bar for Second Battle of the Somme? Are they subsumed into the British contribution?>

The article is about the Second Battle of the Somme (1918). The battle of Bapaume was part of it. "That developed into an advance on a broad front," etc. (RJP 22:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC))

Redirects

"Well, wasn't that special?" This is a total cluster that needs to be unwound.LeadSongDog come howl 17:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)