Talk:Semele

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"ΟΡΦΕΩΣ ΒΑΚΧΙΚΟΥ"[edit]

Any help as to what this translates to, for those of us with no ancient Greek? I'm going to guess the second word is "Bacchus," but it's pretty obscure to me (and a lot of people, I'm thinking) none the less. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.148.27 (talk) 00:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orpheos [priest] of Bacchus, I believe. Please comment, folks. --Wetman (talk) 07:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted two sentences[edit]

  • "Zeus (technically, her great-grandfather in some translations)..." as Aphrodite is his aunt. For a comedian with a similarly literalist point-of-view, used for purposes of sarcasm, see Arnobius. This kind of "information" shows a deep ignorance of mythic relations.
  • "The Roman goddess Stimula is said to be the Roman equivalent of Thyone." Even if the obscure Roman personification of passion in women really existed, she bears no relationship to Semele, mother of Dionysus. --Wetman 16:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oop! I was quite thoroughly wrong in this second deletion: William Smith's exhaustive, Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (1870) vol. iii p 913, says, in full: "STIMULA, the name of Semele, according to the pronunciation of the Romans. (Liv. xxxix. 12 ; Augustin. De Civ. Dei, iv. 11, 16 ; Ov. Fast. vi. 503.) Augustin is wrong in deriving the name from stimulus. (Muller, Etrusk. ii. p. 77.) [L. S.J.]." (The last reference is to Otfried Müller, Die Etrusker, vol. ii, 1828.)

Livy, Ab Urbe Condita, xxxix.12, relates the Bacchanalian scandal concerning the young man Aebutius, his prostitute girlfriend Hispala Faecenia, and how the Bacchanalian debaucheries were uncovered by Sp. Postumius Albinus, the consul of 186 B.C., in an anecdotal account that bears some earmarks of Roman theatre: Satis exploratum de Aebutio ratus consul non uanum auctorem esse, Aebutia dimissa socrum rogat, ut Hispalam indidem ex Auentino libertinam, non ignotam uiciniae, arcesseret ad sese: eam quoque esse quae percunctari uellet. ad cuius nuntium perturbata Hispala, quod ad tam nobilem et grauem feminam ignara causae arcesseretur, postquam lictores in uestibulo turbamque consularem et consulem ipsum conspexit, prope exanimata est. in interiorem partem aedium abductam socru adhibita consul, si uera dicere inducere in animum posset, negat perturbari debere; fidem uel a Sulpicia, tali femina, uel ab se acciperet; expromeret sibi, quae in luco Stimulae Bacchanalibus in sacro nocturno solerent fieri. hoc ubi audiuit, tantus pauor tremorque omnium membrorum mulierem cepit, ut diu hiscere non posset. tandem confirmata puellam admodum se ancillam initiatam cum domina ait: aliquot annis, ex quo manumissa sit, nihil quid ibi fiat scire. iam id ipsum consul laudare, quod initiatam se non infitiaretur: sed et cetera eadem fide expromeret. neganti ultra quicquam scire, non eandem dicere, si coarguatur ab alio, ac per se fatenti ueniam aut gratiam fore; eum sibi omnia exposuisse, qui ab illa audisset.

"Hispala being alarmed because she was sent for by a woman of such high rank and respectable character, and being ignorant of the cause, after that she saw the lictors in the porch, the multitude attending on the consul and the consul himself, was very near fainting. The consul led her into a retired part of the house, and, in the presence of his mother-in-law, told her that "she need not be uneasy, if she could resolve to speak the truth. She might receive a promise of protection either from Sulpicia, a matron of such dignified character, or from himself. That she ought to tell him, what was accustomed to be done at the Bacchanalia, in the nocturnal orgies in the grove of Stimula." When the woman heard this, such terror and trembling of all her limbs seized her, that for a long time she was unable to speak; but recovering, at length she said, that when she was very young, and a slave, she had been initiated, together with her mistress; but for several years past, since she had obtained her liberty, she knew nothing of what was done there." The consul commanded her so far, as not having denied that she was initiated, but charged her to explain all the rest with the same sincerity; and told her, affirming that she knew nothing further, that "there would not be the same tenderness or pardon extended to her, if she should be convicted by another person, and one who had made the whole from her, and had given him a full account of it."

Ovid, Fasti vi. 503ff:

lucus erat, dubium Semelae Stimulaene vocetur;
maenadas Ausonias incoluisse ferunt:
quaerit ab his Ino quae gens foret. Arcadas esse 505
audit et Euandrum sceptra tenere loci;
dissimulata deam Latias Saturnia Bacchas
instimulat fictis insidiosa sonis:"
"There was a grove: known either as Semele’s or Stimula’s:
Inhabited, they say, by Italian Maenads.
Ino, asking them their nation, learned they were Arcadians,
And that Evander was the king of the place.
Hiding her divinity, Saturn’s daughter cleverly
Incited the Latian Bacchae with deceiving words:"


However, the arousal connected with Semele/Stimula is specific to the initiatory rites of Dionysus, imported to Rome shortly before 186 BC. --Wetman 18:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC).[reply]

footnote not supported by text[edit]

"[The Indian river Hydaspes set on fire by Dionysos cries out for mercy :] `The stream you have crossed is no stranger to your name for I have washed another Dionysos in my bath, with the same name as the younger Bromios, when Kronion entrusted Zagreos to the care of my nursing Nymphai; why, you have the whole shape of Zagreos. Grant this favour then, although so long after, to him from whom you are sprung; for you came from the heart of that first born Dionysos, so celebrated [i.e. Zeus swallowed Zagreus’ heart before lying with Semele].'"

I don't thinkn you can quote the editors note after the i.e.Eschoir 02:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Supposed influence on Christianity"[edit]

This section needs to be written as a report of scholarly discourse on this subject. An easy start would begin with remarks of Joseph Campbell, and the sources he cites. As it stands, this part of the article isn't up to the standards of the remainder. --Wetman (talk) 07:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am sorry to seethat this has merely been suppressed, which is not the truly Wikipedian response. "Dionysus and Christ" is a neutral title for remaking this section.--Wetman 20:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Etymology[edit]

Semele: daughter of Cadmus and mother of Dionysus, from L., from Gk. Semele, a Thraco-Phrygian earth goddess, from Phrygian Zemele "mother of the earth," probably cognate with O.C.S. zemlja "earth," L. humus "earth, ground, soil." from: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Semele&searchmode=none Böri (talk) 10:26, 11 December 2010 (UTC) I agree with you. Burkert is a well known scholar, but all scholars agree that Zemele is mother earth.Jestmoon(talk) 15:35, 9 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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