Talk:Sherlock Holmes pastiches

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Untitled[edit]

If memory serves correctly, there had been a Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective board game during the 80, too. Shouldn't it be added to the list ? Ialdaboth 20:18, 25 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also add the SF stories of the great Martian detective, clearly based on Holmes. (I just wish I could credit the writer, or recall the character's name...) Trekphiler 18:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Overlap with Pop culture references to Sherlock Holmes[edit]

There's a lot of overlap between this article and Pop culture references to Sherlock Holmes; for instance, Monk and House (TV series) are discussed both places. Is it possible to clarify the difference between the two, so that people won't be misled into recreating information that's already in a different article? —Celithemis 06:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...Also, what should this article be called? The current title is both ungrammatical and rather vague. —Celithemis 06:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deletions in main article[edit]

There was a lot of material in the section on non-canonical works in the main Sherlock Holmes article which recently got deleted and which may not exist elsewhere. I've integrated some material pertaining to films into the film section here, but there remain several paragraphs lost from the main article which need categorising and checking for duplication, I'm quoting these below, perhaps someone can do something with them.Samatarou 22:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is also common for writers to pit Holmes against other well-known fictional characters originating from or set in the same era as Conan Doyle's stories — particularly those who now exist in the public domain, and so can be used freely without payment of royalties to the creator. In these crossovers, Holmes has frequently interacted with Dr. Fu Manchu (in Cay Van Ash's Ten Years Beyond Baker Street), Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (in Loren D. Estleman's Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Holmes) and Dracula (In Loren Estleman's Sherlock Holmes vs. Dracula or Stephen Seitz's "Sherlock Holmes and the Plague of Dracula"). He has also appeared as a significant (although often unseen) background presence in Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill's comic book series The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, and also Planetary by Warren Ellis and John Cassaday.

Other writers have Holmes meeting real people and participating in real events. In Nicholas Meyer's works, Holmes meets Sigmund Freud, Oscar Wilde, Gilbert and Sullivan, and Bram Stoker, among other Victorian celebrities. In Sherlock Holmes and the Red Demon, Minnesota journalist Larry Millett involves Holmes and Watson in the Great Hinckley Fire; their employer is railroad magnate James J. Hill, and they also meet Boston Corbett, the man who shot John Wilkes Booth. And on at least six occasions (Edward B. Hanna's novel The Whitechapel Horrors, Michael Didbin's novel The Last Sherlock Holmes Story. In Philip J. Carraher's novel The Adventure of the New York Ripper (with Holmes using the alias Simon Hawkes), Barry Day's novel Sherlock Holmes and the Apocalypse Murders, and the movies A Study in Terror and Murder by Decree) Holmes gets involved in the Jack the Ripper case. In Caitlín R. Kiernan's "The Drowned Geologist," Holmes is placed in Whitby at the same time as the stranding of the Demeter, the ship which carried Dracula to England.

Some have even been daring enough to suggest Holmes had a relationship during the books, or to pair him up with another detective. In the Mary Russell series, by Laurie R. King Holmes is married to Mary Russell, a woman thirty-nine years his junior, and makes her his partner in detection. Carole Nelson Douglas also wrote an eight-novel detective series starring Irene Adler as a detective that also features Holmes.

Reorganisation[edit]

The article was already big and unwieldy and seems to have some duplicated material (two mentions of Name of the Rose for instance, now merged). I divided the film section into serious and comedy, however I've also added a list of categories near the start which might be used as a basis of subdivisions of each medium.

In order to bring some order to the random lists of works, I've now introduced three new top level divisions and regrouped the material as best I can into (a) new Sherlock Holmes stories, (b) stories in which he only has a cameo role, and (c) those which are merely inspired by Sherlock Holmes but don't feature him. Each of these sections is then divided into print, film, etc. I suppose it could equally be done the other way round: print, film, etc at the top level, each subdivided into type of story, as long as some kind of order is brought to the mass of examples.

One area where I had a bit of trouble was stories like Shirley Holmes - I put these under "inspired by Holmes", but since they treat Holmes as an historical figure (unlike, say, Name of the Rose), perhaps they should go under cameos, or even into a new fourth section. Samatarou 23:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just completed some work on the Film sections of this page. I added: a link to the Rathbone Sherlock Holmes (1939 film series); I added Ritchie's Game of Shadows; I relocated The Mystery of the Leaping Fish, Sherlock, Jr., and The Return of the World's Greatest Detective to the Holmes-Inspired Characters Film section (they were previously in the Holmes Comedy Film section) as they do not actually feature the character of Sherlock Holmes, but someone who is either inspired by Holmes, or is under the delusion that they are Holmes; I combined two entries for The Return of the World's Greatest Detective (previously in both the Holmes Comedy Films and Holmes-Inspired TV section. As most TV movies were in their respective Film sections, and not TV, I made an effort to consistently note which Films were made for TV. Happy to help with corrections! --Morphovariant (talk) 18:44, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Harrypotterism[edit]

I've removed a paragraph containing what appears to me to be rather fanciful speculation:

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban probably owes a debt to The Hound of the Baskervilles, as both feature an escaped convict (Sirius/Selden), and a supposed hound of ill omen, drawing inspiration from the legend of Black Shuck.

I don't have a problem with this if someone can find a reliable source showing that this is a "notable" (for want of a better word) opinion on the matter. Its inclusion here raw, expressed in vague terms such as "Recent viewers...have noticed similarities" is not verifiable. --Tony Sidaway 00:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Non-canonical stories[edit]

I (TuckerResearch (talk) 22:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)) removed this stuff from the main Sherlock page, it should be put here somehow:[reply]

  • Dexter, Colin (1989). 'A Case of Mis-Identity'. Published in Morse's Greatest Mystery and Other Stories. Pan Books, London. Pp. 133–164. ISBN 0-330-34025-5
  • King, Laurie R. (1994–) Mary Russell Novels:

Radio?[edit]

Why is there no discussion of radio dramas featuring Holmes? I do know that they weren't all adaptations of stories from the canon, but not enough more than that to write such a section myself. --Tbrittreid (talk) 22:17, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

why is there no mention of the Russian шерлок холмс и доктор ватсон? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.3.85.24 (talk) 07:27, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I added a radio section. I put in as much as I know right now but go ahead and add more if you can. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 19:48, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Advertising[edit]

A commercial author has repeatedly added a link to his publisher's web page (most recently here). The linked page notes that the work he is promoting is available for $25, but there is no other indication of notability. I suggest that the entry be reverted, once again. --Old Moonraker (talk) 15:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No TV section?[edit]

I'm surprised the first section of this article doesn't make any mention of non-canonical Sherlock Holmes TV series. At the very least, there's the BBC's Sherlock, and the upcoming Elementary; but there must have been others as well. Or would they be classed as 'Holmes-inspired characters' instead? Robofish (talk) 10:50, 20 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Section added. Samatarou (talk) 00:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

José Luis Garci's Holmes & Watson. Madrid Days (2012)[edit]

The last and rather ignored Garci's film. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.148.202 (talk) 11:00, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the interests of clarity[edit]

Would anybody seriously object if I just moved this article to the more obvious title, "Sherlock Holmes stories by other authors?" The Canon of Sherlock Holmes is simply every Sherlock Holmes story written by his creator, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. --TS 03:09, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am for changing the name of the article, but it should be "Sherlock Holmes pastiches"; pastiche is the proper term used in the literature. (It's even explicitly cited in the pastiche article.) TuckerResearch (talk) 18:35, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This sounds better to me, especially compared to the awkward current name, "Non-canonical Sherlock Holmes works". --TS 21:01, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Due diligence done, I'll move the article to Sherlock Holmes pastiches and fix the links if there are no further comments here by this time on Monday. --TS 19:02, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've made a start on the link fixing. I'll complete it sooner rather than later. The redirects are all fixed. I read somewhere that you're not supposed to do those these days but I couldn't make any sense of it. --TS 23:31, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The move is complete. That was a damn fine cup of coffee! --TS 13:50, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of work...[edit]

This page needs a lot of pruning, citations, and writing from secondary sources so that it is just not one big list. Wikipedia is not a directory. TuckerResearch (talk) 20:58, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pastiche? Adaptation? Parody?[edit]

I wouldn't consider many of the items listed on this page to be true "pastiche". Whether they use the ACD stories directly or present new tales the radio, TV, film, animation, video games, comics, manga/anime, and audio listings would seem to fall under "adaptations" and would belong on the page Adaptations of Sherlock Holmes. Some of them would actually be better described as parodies than either pastiche or adaptations, but I can't seem to find a page for those. The true pastiche story would be in the same medium as the original, simple prose. Novels or short stories, possibly with a limited amount of illustration but not to the level of a child's story book or a comic book. Any thoughts on reducing this page and making a clear link to the Adaptations page for the others? --Khajidha (talk) 21:38, 22 June 2017 (UTC) PS: And the "Holmes-inspired characters" would probably be better served on the Pop culture references to Sherlock Holmes page.--Khajidha (talk) 21:41, 22 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The original title of this article was Non-canonical Sherlock Holmes works but it was changed because someone thought "pastiche" was the more "correct" literary term (as per the discussion above). However as you point out, many of the stories listed are not pastiches as such, but nor are they adaptions, as they are mostly all-new stories which owe nothing to any specific Conan Doyle story, but simply use his characters, or treat the characters as historical figures. So perhaps the title should be reverted to "Non-canonical Sherlock Holmes works"? Samatarou (talk) 20:32, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Where stories listed in this article are adaptions of canonical Holmes stories, feel free to move them to the Adaptions article. Samatarou (talk) 20:37, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the adaptations page, I see many examples of original stories there. I have, myself, generally come across the term "adaptation" applied both to straight-forward retellings and new material, rather than the limited sense you employ. Perhaps more voices are needed.--Khajidha (talk) 23:52, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Holmes-inspired characters: TV[edit]

This section makes no mention of the recurring Sherlockian group in NCIS...—GRM (talk) 16:22, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of a work[edit]

I don't know if this book qualifies to be here or not, therefore I'm sharing it here so that it may be included- https://penguin.co.in/book/fiction/holmes-of-the-raj/ (Holmes of the Raj) Seomelono (talk) 12:07, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please help and look into this? Lord Cornwallis — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seomelono (talk • contribs) 15:13, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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