Talk:Shootout

"Shot it out"

This is informal English and is used all over the article. I'd suggest this phrase be changed to "exchanged fire" or similar. Some guy 07:31, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

True enough. However, I don’t particularly like “exchanged fire” either. Too formal and non-descriptive—it does not do justice to the violence of the situation. Compare “exchanged fire” with “exchanged business cards” or “exchanged gifts.” What else can we come up with? I am willing to work on this. On the other hand, since the title of the article is “Shootout,” perhaps the phrase is appropriate here. •DanMS 21:21, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

A little delayed in my response here, but Wikipedia is an encylopedia... formal language is expected in articles. The purpose of articles is to provide information, not "do justice" to anything. Some guy (talk) 00:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Waco entry

I have rewritten the text of the Branch Davidian section in a way that hopefully helps to distinguish between the ATF and FBI phases of the siege. Also, I changed the deathcount. Arguably, only the initial ATF raid constituted a "shootout," and that for purposes of this article only those Davidians who died on February 28 should be counted. I looked at the format used for the Ruby Ridge and MOVE deaths to find a way to acknowledge the April 19 deaths in a way that fit in with the rest of the page. And the total also needed to be corrected from 75 to 82. --WacoKid 21:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Pretty good, but I'd question the "raided" language, and also note in the body count that the April 19th deaths were a result of a conflagration, and not gunfire, or else those deaths should not be included in the body count at all. Lmj81 02:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Entebbe and Munich

Terrorism and shootouts are different. I would like serious consideration for the removal of both of these entries from the shootout page. Quinty 21:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The definition of shootout, according to the article, is "A shootout may also involve two groups outside of law enforcement, such as rival gangs. A shootout in a military context (i.e., regularly constituted armed forces or even guerilla or insurgent forces) would usually be considered a battle rather than a shootout." Entebbe and Munich, being a shootout between organized, guerilla forces (Uganda military and PLO) and authorities (Israeli military and German police), should not be in this article. 64.9.54.173 13:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a fair question, but hostage rescue operations also doesn't fit well under military firefights. Perhaps they need their own article. Lmj81 02:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Law Enforcement tag

I removed the WP:LE tag because this article is about shootouts in general and not about a specific one involving law enforcement.EMT1871 01:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Siege of Sidney Street

Although known as a siege, this British event included a gun battle, as described in the entry. I'd suggest it should be added here.--Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 18:05, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Present tense

Why are these snippets written in the present (or progressive) tense when they are about past events? --Bejnar (talk)

American Perspective

It seems like the writer of this article is writing from an American perspective with only 3 out of the 36 'famous' shootouts being in a different country. Obviously it isn't respective around the world with many more shootouts in history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.252.33 (talk) 13:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Very solid point. There are 'shootouts' where 2 people died here yet shootouts like the Australian Kelly Gang's fight with the police which resulted in large amounts of deaths on either side and lasted a long time are not. Also what constitutes a 'shootout' in relation to this article? Is it between police and criminals? Can it be between terrorists and soldiers as is the case in a few of these? If so what about 'revolutionaries and soldiers'? Or between soldiers and soldiers? How are we going to limit these definitions suffeciently to make this article narrow enough to maintain?--Senor Freebie (talk) 09:20, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

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Joanne Chesimard/Assata Shakur?

Shouldn't she be in this article somewhere? She was involved in a shootout that is still notorious in New Jersey, particularly after her later breaking out of jail and fleeing to Cuba. — Rickyrab. ^{Yada yada yada} 10:08, 27 June 2017 (UTC) — Rickyrab. ^{Yada yada yada} 10:08, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Joanne Chesimard — Rickyrab. ^{Yada yada yada} 10:10, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Why is this not a list?

This article is just a list. It seems doubtful that a proper article on shootouts will emerge from it. Why not make this the list (notable shootouts/gun battles/firefights, "shootout" seems a tad ethnocentric) and make a new article?

Battle of Bamber Bridge

I suggest that this 'example of racial violence and mutiny' be added to the section 'Other famous shootouts'--Brenont (talk) 12:53, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Article/header blurb and content are completely incompatible.

Someone who is looking for information on what a shootout is is likely not, in fact, looking for a poorly curated list of "shootouts". This article should chart who calls what a "shootout", and for jeez, for starters, a citation on the basic intro paragraph's definition. Otherwise this page should either be "List of Famous Shootouts" or simply exist as a wiktionary entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Piassant (talk • contribs) 09:59, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Basic criteria for inclusion (?)

I was thinking about how broad the term "shootout" is and how common they can be, and how likely it is that the recently-fixed indiscriminate list issue might happen again. So I'd like to make some ground rules here for inclusion, lest this become a list article. I'm not trying to "take ownership" here, these are just strong suggestions.

• Entries must have articles. I think this is straightforward; most of the removed examples lacked articles.
• The exchange of gunfire must be a significant part of the incident. One brief exchange, a raid ending the situation, or one party simply getting shot are not really shootouts compared to the likes of, say, the North Hollywood shootout; basically, they should be shooting at each other over a reasonable amount of time. Of course, some examples may arguably pass, like the 1973 New York City hostage incident, which was mostly a standoff but began as a shootout.
• Entries should consist of primarily firearm-based combat. Some hand-to-hand combat or bombs going off is fine I guess, but that should be the most of it. Situations with stuff like tanks and attack helicopters going around, like in the Beslan school siege, should not be considered shootouts or listed here, since at that point we're kind of past the scope of a mere shootout.
• Entries should be non-military and not part of a wider conflict. They don't even need to involve police. Again, some examples may pass, such as the Battle of Bamber Bridge, which involved soldiers as part of World War II but was not them actually fighting the war against the enemy.
• Entries should be brief summaries. One paragraph, not too lengthy, with one or two sources should be good enough. The rest should be in the main article.

Thoughts are appreciated. AdoTang (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2023 (UTC)