Talk:Slavery in 21st-century jihadism

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Mawdudi and Qutb[edit]

Both Mawdudi and Qutb are 20th century men; neither survived to the 21st century. Nor are the Jamaat-e-Islami or the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood involved in slavery. So either they shouldn't be in this article, or the article should be renamed to "Modern Islamist view of slavery".Bless sins (talk) 05:41, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Churchill Quote[edit]

Why in the world is a quote from Churchill used to describe the history of Islamic slavery, rather than one from an actual historian writing in modern times? I will never understand the fascination many Wikipedia editors seem to have with citing outdated, orientalist, sometimes outright racist sources on pages pertaining to Islamic history. 176.53.2.126 (talk) 08:00, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like another article to bash Islam I suppose. Ahm1453 (talk) 18:36, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sudan, Mautitania, Chad and Mali[edit]

Sudan, Mauritania, Chad and Mali should be added to this article.

Slavery in Sudan
Slavery in Mauritania
Human trafficking in Chad
Slavery in Mali

CrimelordCanada (talk) 15:55, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge[edit]

This article should be merged into History of slavery in the Muslim world. The current article contains two cases of slavery: that by Boko Haram and that by ISIL. These do not merit a separate article but can be covered in History of slavery in the Muslim world.Bless sins (talk) 02:47, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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Missed aspect: Strong emancipation appeal from some African Islamist movements...[edit]

Could the regular editors of this page help me to find more citations to support what I write hereunder? And could I then add the stuff hereunder to this page?

Compliments, Pieter.

Abolitionist tendencies within some Islamist groups (title to be discussed)

Almost all Saharan and Sahelian communities had (and outside the cities often still have) a system of rigid feudalism, in which slavery had been or continues to be seen by some people with a 'noble lineage' as a god given, unavoidable right. Colonial rulers, and later socialism sometimes tried to end this permanently. But often when central government weakened, traditional structures including slavery became more dominant again.

Now some Islamist groups in North Africa appeal to the disenfranchised by advocating (and partly practising) fully equal rights, sometimes effectively out-lawing de facto slavery.

In Somalia, many of the fighters in Al Shabaab, and some of their commanders were from either Rahaweyne or 'Bantu' groups. When Somalia had been a socialist dictatorship in the 1970's and 80's, both groups had been promised full emancipation from their vassal or slave status, with mixed results, fading away over time. (Similar to what had happened in Mauritania, Western Sahara, northern Mali, Algeria, Sudan). The Somali civil war threw them back into semi- or real slavery, and when Rahaweyne organized large self defence groups, Al Shabaab offered them emancipation, not in western words, but by summarizing the ideals of the prophet Mohamed as: In the face of god all men are equal.

The same cycle seems to happen today in Lybia: Gaddafi had offered good education, and many high posts in government and army to people of slave-descent, angering many tribal leaders. The civil war that ousted Gaddafi, locked the slave-decendants up into de facto prison camps, or threw them back in near or real slavery. May 2019, Isil fighters attacked Sebha, in the far south. The mayor says they were supported by 'mercenaries' [1], (this is Libyan coded language for black skinned fighters), and I hear they concentrated on freeing black skinned prisoners.

In the drought-famines during the 1980's in Mauritania, northern Mali,Niger and Sudan, millions of people who had up to then de facto been slaves owned by lighter skinned families, were sent away by their masters and ended up in improvised slums around capitals. Most of them were no longer trated as individual property. But, cultural ideas about a god given social stratification, often seen as allowed or even ordered by Maliki Islam, resulted in widespread social and economic discrimination, keeping most of them out of paid jobs, the formal economy and formal political functions, hence in perpetual abject poverty. [2]

AQIM branches have recruited extensively amongst such disenfrenchised black skinned people, often with obvious success in Nuakchott, northern Mali and Somalia, and, seemingly, now also in south Libya by ISIL. AQIM and its branches often get accused of racism against black people, precisely because their claim to basically enforce emancipation through Islam, works so well as a recruiting tool. Within AQIM there have also been splits and mergers, in which black communities, disappointed by realities about equal opportunities, revolted against a creeping return of the same institutional racism that had made them to join these groups. That seems to be part of the background of the emergence of Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa and Al-Mourabitoun.

Traditional North-African Islam (often Maliki) usually supports the existing social order. At best it tries to talk de facto slave-owners and their class into treating Abid (slaves) as Haratini (ex-slaves), and into allowing both groups a bit more respect and economic opportunities. Islamism on the other hand, especially of the Salafist branch, simply claims that all Muslims are equal and that therefore categories like Abid and Haratini are an insult to the real Islam.

For many young, disenfranchised black people in North-Africa, the only black leader they know who commanded real top level power and respect, is Abu Laith al-Libi, the top Al Qaeda general and recruiter, killed ten years back by drone. The films and pictures that Al Shabaab, Al Qaeda and AQIM (and now also ISIL-Nort-Africa?) spread, often depict dark skinned people, not as barefoot porters in rags, but as equally dressed and equipped, sometimes also as leaders or commanders.

Even though emancipation claims by these groups are not always effective or even serious, it is important to understand, because on social media, it appeals to millions, and hence is an important recruitement tool. Pieter Felix Smit (talk) 12:36, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please refer to more sources or alternative add that to it yourself. Wikipedia encourages it. But it would be good to get an second opinion on this article, or a second view. Ahm1453 (talk) 18:33, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete 2nd paragraph of lead[edit]

Despite above comments, the second paragraph of the lead is false and doesn't relate to 21st-Century Islam. The first source exclusively deals with the 17th-Century. The second cited source refers to the 20th-Century, and doesn't say what's being suggested here—the fact is that a tiny number of former slaves in Mauritania became imams is the exception, not the rule. Even the Slavery in Mauritania article makes clear this paragraph is in error, cites the second source correctly, and provides many sources. For more recent information from a reputable source, see here[3] I propose to delete this paragraph as it is false, at least in the context of the article subject. Elle Kpyros (talk) 16:15, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense. I've deleted it. Eperoton (talk) 03:23, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The entire section Slavery_in_21st-century_Islamism#History, including the Churchill quote also doesn't related to 21st century Islam.VR talk 03:59, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's true. Eperoton (talk) 02:44, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It was also pointed out above that neither Maududi nor Qutb survived into the 21st century, and its not clear what their connection with 21st century slavery is.VR talk 04:02, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like an attempt to place the topic in some historical perspective, but which was done by copying materials from other articles and with sources that don't mention the topic of this article. This does raise WP:SYNTH concerns. Eperoton (talk) 02:44, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are there many sources that give significant coverage to this particular topic? Quick research revealed two kinds of sources: 1) Give significant coverage to ISIS' slavery, 2) give significant coverage to slavery in the Muslim world (which is complex and includes things like forced labor). If this article is really about ISIS, then I suggest we be more explicit in calling it that. That would make it easier to figure out what the historical perspective should be.VR talk 20:32, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are also sources like these that mention kidnapping and sexual violence but not slavery that are used in the article.VR talk 20:37, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
None of the sources currently cited in the Boko Haram section uses the term "slavery" in its own voice, but it's easy to find other RSs which do. One can also find RSs which discuss slavery by ISIS and Boko Haram together. The first result that comes up on Google Books is a recent Brill monograph by Bernard K. Freamon Possessed by the Right Hand: The Problem of Slavery in Islamic Law and Muslim Cultures. So, I would say, the existence of this article does have support in RSs, but there's much room for improvement. Eperoton (talk) 00:45, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/soldiers-killed-attack-haftar-camp-south-libya-190504102129166.html
  2. ^ https://carnegieendowment.org/files/mauritania_insecurity.pdf
  3. ^ "Slavery in Mauritania: An Update | Wilson Center". www.wilsoncenter.org. Retrieved 2020-08-03.
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