Talk:Sloane Ranger

"referred originally"?

Why, in the first line, does the article speak of "Sloane Ranger" as though it is a term no longer in use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoso Jade (talk • contribs) 15:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

POV?

This article, wonderfully detailed though it is, is also pretty POV and not massively encyclopaedic. It is perhaps the nature of the beast that this article must be somewhat subjective, but I've nevertheless made a start at organising it somewhat and generally wikifying it. Driller thriller 03:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Good work, this article needed some serious wikification. Starting to look much better now. 138.38.32.84 15:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I just tagged Sloans Today as POV. The rest could use some work too but I don't like to tag unless it's really bad Robert Brockway 22:31, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Slones Today is pretty weak. POV hardly even begins to describe it... 82.152.225.137

I'll try to clean up the Sloanes Today section in the near future. While there may be some truth in the remarks, the tone is far from informative. Ceepee 16:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

This article is in need of work, it is riddled with inaccuracies and generally seeks to glorify a particularly vile subset of London culture in permanent decline. --213.121.207.34 13:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Labelling any group of people as "vile" doesn't help us construct an encyclopedia, I would dump a 'sofixit' template here but it's pointless, your problem isn't with supposed innaccuracies in the article, it's with the subject. This kind of comment helps no-one, it's simply offensive. Belt up. Driller thriller 11:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't tell people to belt up. Move on if you have that attitude. This article is still hopelessly POV and reads as though it is a deliberate spoof. --SandyDancer 21:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Move on? Oh dear, well I think I'll stick around if it's all the same. As it happens I was the first editor here to object to the POV in this article and I've been putting a little effort over time into fixing it. Thank you for your suggestion regarding Sloane Ranger! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. Driller thriller 15:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

"most public intellectuals of the 1970s and the 1980s were left-wing degenerates" is clearly a POV statement. "Left-wing degenerates" is a pejorative label, "public intellectuals" is a term too vague to ever be factual, and claiming that "most of [A] were [B]" for anything demands a citation. Squeedle 18:06 30-Sep-2013

Sloanes Today

I did a rewrite on this section and ditched a large part of it, I've put it here in case anyone's got any use for the content that's been lost.

More recent examples of the Sloane Ranger include the likes of Lady Victoria Hervey and Tara Palmer-Tomkinson. MSRs still wear Barbours, but not as much as they did; FSRs, being almost painfully fashion conscious, wouldn't be seen dead in a pair of court shoes - messy hair, dangly ear-rings and pashminas all the way (that's actually too restrictive, FSRs do dress differently, the common factor is that they tend, being affluent, to dress very well.) The city is now seen as a bit less Sloane than it was, longer hours, more Germans, a bit spivvish, but... Sloanes themselves have changed, are far more ambitious and career conscious than they were, and feel more at home at Deutschebank than their predecessors 25 years ago would have done. Sloanes still may own half of Gloucestershire, but they may just as easily set up a small organic farm and sell celeriac by the kilo, or else market bacon from "happy pigs". However, a Sloane doesn't vote Labour. 25 years ago the odd Sloane might have voted Labour, but not now. And post the hunting ban Sloanes have become a lot more pro-field sports (this has also contributed to them becoming a lot more anti-Labour). Unlike the rest of the country they weren't taken in by Tony Blair - he was too much like the ingratiating sod they remembered from school.

Applied to a younger, school age generation, including the young royals like William and Harry,^[1] Sloanes can be seen to be a generic term for public school kids who are fairly happy being public school kids i.e. they talk with received pronunciation and don't wish they were from da ghetto. Less flippantly the same patterns of dress and attitude can be detected as amongst Sloanes of any age, though boys may tend to dress more trendily than a 25 year old SR would, and girls follow more easily the messy blond hair, pashmina, jangly things on arms, frayed denim mini skirt pattern. For a closer look at this particular subculture of Sloanedom a visit to the site linked below is recommended. Even if one's not interested a visit to the games arcade is recommended, containing as it does a number of absolutely stupidly addictive games. For a closer look at slightly older Sloanes go to Fulham. Or a reeling ball. Or if you're in Oxford the King's Arms or the Bridge on Tuesday night.

Hope no-one objects. Driller thriller 20:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Content removed by 213.121.207.34

Indeed, as the Sloane identity has become seen to be considerably "dated" and "unhip", Sloane Rangers have sought out new hot spots, including East London, in particular the Old Street / Hoxton Sq. area and Hackney. Negotiations of Sloane identity range from the King's Road on location to fully fleged "chavistocrats". The term "chavistocrats" captures the phenomenon where Sloanes adopt the dress, style and mannerisms assoicated with "chav culture". A common image is a girl wearing tracksuit bottoms (chav) with a pashmina (Sloane).

More Sloanes Today content removed by an anon. Driller thriller 11:20, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

SR Universities

Interesting article, good I suspect for arrivals from abroad who may be at a loss when confronted with "local" expressions.

One factual matter that needs cleaning up is the reference to especially York (and I suspect also Exeter) as a redbrick university. They are good universities but were founded after World War II along with other now-excellent universities such as Warwick and Bath. Check out the 'redbrick' entry and you'll see a list which looks complete to me. Would suggest dropping the 'redbrick' reference altogether as I don't think it is necessarily fully representative any more of the range of 'prestigious' universities SRs might nowadays like to attend.

I've added St Andrews to the list, if no-one objects. SEJohnston 02:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I've purged most of the listed universities, replacing them with a smaller but referenced list which, I appreciate, is rather outdated but we've got to start somewhere when trying to write an encyclopaedic article! Longwayround (talk) 20:07, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Grace Short

I included Grace from Big Brother 7 in the Sloanes Today section because I think it shows the term's still alive and well; however someone seems to doubt her Sloany credentials. I'm gonna put it back to "self-confessed" in the article, as it appears in the Big Brother page itself, at least until someone can word a replacement phrase somewhat better. Driller thriller 17:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

If you claim to be one, you aren't - not absolutely sure about that but it's better this way than how it was rewritten before. Driller thriller 17:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Apparently she's been badly beaten up. Doesn't always pay to rub your "sloane" credentials in peoples faces it seems... --SandyDancer 12:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

She was beaten up while trying to stop an argument between her friend and a man outside a club. The man punched her by accident when he went to hit her friend, however after flooring her he thought he might as well kick her in the head a few times for good measure. He stubbed out his fag on her head before he left too: not all that funny in the end. Driller thriller 15:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Surely this woman is - at least! - three social classes off being a sloane. Not that that is actually a bad thing.

Portmanteau?

I don't believe that "Sloane Ranger" qualifies as a portmanteau. The mere fact that it is two words disqualifies it, I believe. Jamesg 01:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

You're right, it's similar, but it's not a portmanteau, I've changed it to the more general "word play" in the article for now, I'm sure there's a more exact phrase but my English Language A Level is just a distant memory so I can't remember what it is. Driller thriller 18:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

North American equivalent?

Is there an equivalent or similar cultural group in North American culture?--Sonjaaa 03:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I think maybe the closest equivalent is what I know of preppy culture. I'll have a closer look though. Driller thriller 03:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree though this doesn't need to be added to the article as it isn't necessary in every article about something non-US to provide a US comparison. Doing so just fuels the notion that Wikipedia is US-centric. --SandyDancer 10:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

No-one suggested there needed to be anything of the sort in the article: however there's no reason Wikipedia should be UK-centric either; more people are likely to understand what 'preppy' means, even in the UK, than will understand the current points of reference. Driller thriller 15:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Believe me the term 'preppy' will mean nothing to most Brits. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 00:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Preppy is too achievement focused and too pretentious. DinDraithou (talk) 00:00, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I understand «preppy» to be a fashion statement. Avril Lavigne sings not about crappy clothes, but preppy clothes. BTW John Bon Jovi has used the term «Sloan Ranger» in a song where the video was filmed in New York. --2001:4644:DC5B:0:B42C:300C:1074:9C64 (talk) 01:00, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

List of Schools

The list of schools considered "particularly Sloaney" seems to be steadily growing, rendering the list less useful. Seriously, if virtually every posh fee-paying school in London and the home counties is a "particularly Sloaney" school, do we need to list them? I think not. Why don't we just say public schools are seen as being breeding grounds for Sloanes,a nd leave it at that? The statement would be true. Listing schools means inevitably you include some that shouldn't be there, and leave out some that shouldn't - and the whole thing is totally subjective anyway. I am removing the list of schools for this reason. --SandyDancer 10:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with your assessment, the list's been growing constantly. I think, though, that there are some schools which are considered particularly Sloaney and a list is therefore useful. Due to the subjective nature of all this the list should be properly referenced though. Driller thriller 15:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The list of schools is completely incompetent actually. It's just a random list of boarding schools - most of which are not in fact very sloaney (i.e. who wrote Harrow, Eton, Winchester - these three are some of the most academic and competitive schools in the country? Few sloanes would get anywhere near them!). The really sloaney schools are more like wycombe abbey, greshams, benenden ect, and above allow, Francis Holland (which is the sloane day school par excellence). But I can't be bothered to re-write the list because the whole article needs to be re-written really - there's a lot to do Avaya1 21:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The list of schools needs to go. It's turned into an I-went-to-this-school-so-I'm-going-to-add-it-to-the-list-because-I-am-massively-insecure-about-my-poshness list. There should be no more than three schools listed, if any at all (my suggestion). I am going to wait about a week to see if there are anymore comments then I will totally re-edit the page and continue to fend off additions to the list.--Zoso Jade (talk) 15:07, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree with the above post. The list is just naming every independent school around and is clearly being added to by people keen to make sure their school is not left out. It suffices to say that Sloanes tend to have been privately educated. Nothing more is added by adding specific names which are very subjective. The fact that a school is a famous public school doesn't in and of itself mean it is sloaney. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.82.217.156 (talk) 17:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Sloanes Now and Then

There is a real difference to the Sloanes from the Sloane Ranger Handbook days to the Sloanes that exist today. Perhaps it's beacause now there are so many sub sets of Sloanes. I'm not sure but I don't think it is accurate to say that they are a dying breed - you only have to walk down the Kings Road on a Saturday to see that this isn't true. It's a complicated matter - there seem to be sloanes who are like the old-school sr and sr who are like updated versions...they have the pearls earrings and pashminas but are wearing torn jeans and ugg boots. I wouldn't say Lady Victoria Hervey was a sloane as she is a dubious aristo/reality star not from the upper middle class. Just some thoughts.

Origins of phrase

The article includes an explanation of the phrase and refers to Peter York's role in popularising it, but doesn't mention the fact that the phrase "Sloane Ranger" was actually coined by a sub-editor named Martina Margetts who was working for York on Harpers & Queen at the time. (See this article by Stephen Bayley: http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1962586,00.html). Perhaps some reference to this could be included? 172.203.51.4 09:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Major article clean-up

Part 1 - > As I said I would a while ago, I have cleaned up this article to no longer read as though it's an advert for various schools, locations in London, or most bizarrely... names. I think any serious contributor can agree that the article is supposed to be informative, balanced, have a neutral point of view and not contain unnecessary detail. As such I outline here the changes that I have made:

• I have removed all opinionated claims about Sloanes. As entertaining as some of the shameless self-promotion and snobby put-downs of "pretenders" wearing signet rings were I think we need to get to a position where the article sticks to facts rather than casual, opinionated observation.
• I have made a number of grammatical changes where I found errors.
• I have removed references that "outsiders" would find baffling - such as claims that Sloanes are "often the Town & Country type". This article is for people trying to find about Sloanes. Using such vague terminology will only add to confusion.
• I have removed excessive examples - when making a point one or two archetypal examples is all we need, not ten or twenty. This article had excessive lists for schools, areas and names. It is easy to see how this has arisen - one person sensibly includes Eton as a typical Sloane school. Another understandably adds Harrow as another. A third then decides his school must be in these ranks (presumably for self-confidence issues) so he adds his in. A fourth reckons his school is posher than the third guy's so he puts his in. And the floodgates open. A few weeks later there are about thirty examples of Sloaney Schools. Please. Stop it. I know you went to a top public school. I know your area has wealthy (and very, very posh) people in residence. I know your given name singles you out for being well upper-class but.... this does not have to be in the article. I am going to monitor this article - no more than three examples for any one point and those three examples are not going to be arbitrary - they will bt three most stereotypical examples in the public psyche. The self-promotion ends here.--Zoso Jade (talk) 17:39, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Horrible

This article still needs major clean up. If there we had a tag that said "this article is mostly original research and/or utter shite" this article would be a prime candidate for it. --Griseum (talk) 14:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

A year on that is still the case 83.104.249.240 (talk) 22:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Four years later... Nothing has changed. Longwayround (talk) 10:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Hooray Henry

The term "Hoorah Henry" is from ~1936 in an article by Damon Runyon. [2] Not sure what the 1970s band name (in current version of article) has got to do with it but I'm pretty sure it's wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.185.144.122 (talk) 16:10, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Deserves Publication in the Encyclopedia Dramatica

Much of this article is merely jokey. Some of the remainder reads like non-fiction in the form of an imagined derogatory attack piece. If this entry is to exist in Wikipedia at all, it should be limited to the history and cultural context of the phrase "Sloan Ranger", and the significance of that meme in the cultural context (if there is any). It not should not attempt to make factual-sounding, unprovable claims about who Sloane Rangers are or how they behave.

It feels like it would be an excellent entry at Encyclopedia Dramatica however. Perhaps it should be removed and republished there. --Hughstimson (talk) 16:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Peter York: 'Suffolk a magnet for the modern Sloane'

'Suffolk a magnet for the modern Sloane' Thoughts? Longwayround (talk) 20:10, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Is this an ad?

The Handbook is mentioned 7 times. 40% of the article (397 words out of 989) is a description of this book and its creation. The sole illustration is of the book.

Had the subculture been explained as painstakingly as the book is, the article would be much improved.

Alternatively, the article might be better titled The Official Sloane Ranger Handbook. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:3E0B:BA00:8D2C:20B1:9242:8B53 (talk) 04:39, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Removed POV tag

I am removing an old neutrality tag from this page. The discussion is no longer active per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag. —¿philoserf? (talk) 21:31, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Removed Original Research and More Footnotes templates

I've removed the two templates that say; This article possibly contains original research. (January 2009) This article includes a list of general references, but it lacks sufficient corresponding inline citations.

Reading this talk page, the original research has been removed along with the point of view concerns.

Also, there are now plenty of footnotes. Newystats (talk) 22:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC)