Talk:Somalis in Finland

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Literacy rate[edit]

The YLE url attributes its claimed 85%-90% illiteracy rate for 2010 to Migrationsverket [1], which is the native name of the Swedish Migration Agency [2] (not the Finnish Immigration Service, whose native name is instead Maahanmuuttovirasto [3]). It turns out, though, that the Swedish Migration Agency did not actually publish any such rate for that period. The only actual survey-based rate that has been published is by the THL [4], and it is a much lower percentage (“En dryg tredjedel av de somaliska kvinnorna hade aldrig gått i skola och ca en tiondel av dem svarade att de läser hjälpligt eller är analfabeter.” – “Around a third of the Somali women had never gone to school and about a tenth of them answered that they read helpfully or are illiterate.” [5]). The illiteracy rate among females would therefore in fact have been around 33% (i.e., a ~67% literacy rate), and even lower among males. It appears that the claimed ~90% illiteracy rate originates with one Jorma Vuorio, a former Director-General of the Finnish Immigration Service. He admitted in an interview that this rather high percentage (which he had put at between 80%-90%) was not an expert figure, but rather simply an impression that he had arrived at through interviewing various asylum applicants (“No, siihen en tietysti ole asiantuntija vastaamaan, mutta näyttäisi siltä, että luku- ja kirjoitustaidottomuus on erittäin suurta tässä joukossa.” – ”Well, of course I do not have an expert to answer it, but it seems that literacy is very great here.” [6]). In other words, not only is the ~90% figure essentially an opinion, it is based on asylum applicants, who constitute a rather small fraction of the total Somalia-born immigrants according to Statistics Finland (around 571 individuals [7], out of the estimated 8,767 Somalia-born immigrants in 2011 [8]); a subset among whom the illiteracy rate would likely be somewhat higher. This makes the figures unreliable per WP:EXCEPTIONAL, especially vis-a-vis the broader Somalia-born population. Soupforone (talk) 05:24, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Finnnish immigration service has an official name in Finnish, Swedish and English: "Maahanmuuttovirasto, "Migrationsverket" and "Finnish immigration service" respetively. There are two Migrationsverket in the world: one in Finland, the other in Sweden. They have different English names. When YLE writes "Migrationsverket" in Swedish (an official language of Finland), they mean Finnish immigration service and not Swedish Migration Agency (the official English name for Swedish agency). Research efforts will be better when this is clear. The added paragraph specifies arrivals not ppl already in country. The quote is attributed to Heikki Taskinen, director of Migri back in 2010, not Jorma Vuorio. AadaamS (talk) 13:17, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, all that Heikki Taskinen asserts is that a majority of applicants that he interviewed were illiterate (i.e., not all Somalia-born immigrants, but rather a portion of them) -- "Att ansökningarna hopar sig beror på att somalierna intervjuas personligen då det inte är möjligt att från deras hemland få handlingar som bevisar familjebandet. Största delen av de sökande är analfabeter och det är därför omöjligt att lägga fram skriftliga handlingar" -- "The applications are based on the fact that Somalis are interviewed personally, since it is not possible to get documents from their home country proving family ties. The majority of the applicants are illiterate and it is therefore impossible to submit written documents". This could mean any percentage ≥51%; it is clearly also a nebulous, personal estimate. It's the erstwhile Jorma fellow that suggests a ~90% rate. Anyway, especially given the THL's survey-based illiteracy rate of ~33%, these guessed figures are inappropriate for statements of fact per WP:WIKIVOICE and WP:EXCEPTIONAL. Soupforone (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 September 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:48, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Somali community in Finland → Somalis in Finland – This is the standard naming for all other "Somalis in ..." articles. 92.10.233.188 (talk) 23:22, 12 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.