Talk:Statue of Andrew Jackson (U.S. Capitol)

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Disambiguator[edit]

@Carptrash: I am curious, why did you choose "Kinney" as a disambiguator over "Scholz"? Should we credit both, or might Andrew Jackson (sculpture) be a better title? ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:59, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer: SIRIS lists both her and her hubby, I thought two names was too much, "sculpture" to cold after all the others we've done and sort of in deference to the Women in Red (or something) project, so I picked her name. Carptrash (talk) 06:06, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: But I'm not sure we should credit one over the other, right? ---Another Believer (Talk) 06:07, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and moved the article to Andrew Jackson (National Statuary Hall Collection), until a better disambiguator can be determined. ---Another Believer (Talk) 06:19, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've also redirected Andrew Jackson (Scholz) to Andrew Jackson (National Statuary Hall Collection). ---Another Believer (Talk) 06:30, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"But I'm not sure we should credit one over the other, right?" I guess, @Another Believer: my answer to what might be rhetorical question would be "wrong" which is why I did it how I did it. Which is to say with some thought. It seems your thought has taken us somewhere else. Carptrash (talk) 06:32, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If both artists created the work, why would we choose only one to disambiguate the work from others depicting Andrew Jackson? ---Another Believer (Talk) 06:34, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As I recall @Another Believer: it was you who originally had just Scholz, so you can answer your question as easily as I can. So it seems as if it were okay to pick just the male but not just the female.Carptrash (talk) 06:50, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: I originally went with "Scholz" because the Wikipedia articles for the artists are Belle Kinney Scholz and Leopold Scholz. Since the artists had the same last name, I figured their common last name would suffice, but if sourcing uses "Belle Kinney", then we should either use "Kinney and Scholz", or find another way to disambiguate. Nothing to do with gender here, we'd be having the same discussion if the artists were both male or both female. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:25, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer: I emailed the Office of the Architect etc and asked how the work was signed. Assuming that there is a reply, let's go with that, until then just leave it as is? Carptrash (talk) 16:44, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks for your contributions to this discussion so far. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:02, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Another Believer:, here is the answer I just received fro the Office of the Architect: "That statue is signed "Belle Kinney-L.F Scholz New York" I hope that this will be useful to you. Eric Paff Office of the Curator"
So this leads me to the conclusion that we should go back to your second suggestion, (Kinney-Scholz). can you do that? Thanks, Carptrash (talk) 17:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've never seen another Wikipedia article disambiguate in this way. One might see this and think the artist was created by one person with the last name Kinney–Scholz. I still prefer the current title, though I'm opening to discussing this at another venue like WikiProject Visual arts or something so we can get input from more editors. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:40, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Carptrash: I went ahead and posted an invitation to contribute to this discussion at WikiProject Visual arts. Hopefully some other editors will share their thoughts, since this one's a bit tricky. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:34, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Just as an update, I created Andrew Jackson (sculpture) to serve as a disambiguation page. I'm sure there are other sculptures of Jackson to add as well. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:57, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is a very nice Jackson by Charles Keck that deserves an article. I think I have some 35mm slides - now a pain in the ass - of one or maybe two versions of it. I added a red link at the discombobulation page to it for my future reference. Thanks, Carptrash (talk) 20:11, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What should this article be called?[edit]

  • Andrew Jackson (Kinney and Scholz), because Andrew Jackson is the subject of the sculpture and (Kinney and Scholz) are the sculptors. There are to be 100 or statues in the National Statuary Hall Collection, all the other are named after the subject of the statue and the sculptor, as in Philip Kearny (Brown) and Charles Brantley Aycock (Keck) and a host of others. That this is the only statue done by two sculptors is no reason to change the convention. Carptrash (talk) 04:16, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I like the present name, Andrew Jackson (National Statuary Hall Collection). Looks classy as well as being an accurate descriptor. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:24, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So @Randy Kryn:, do you feel that all the sculptures in the collection should be "Subject Name (National Statuary Hall Collection)"? Carptrash (talk) 04:21, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My answer was more of a WP:ILIKEIT comment. The two names with 'and' between them solves the problem of using a one-person hyphen-name for which the descriptor could have been mistaken. Using the entire term 'National Statuary Hall Collection' would be fine, as would the two with 'and' instead of the hyphen. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:28, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, we should not use "National Statuary Hall Collection" as a disambiguator for all of the statue articles. The others are correct in using the artist's last name as the disambiguator. This article is unique. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:44, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Kinney and Scholz" seems to work best for consistency in naming the artists (not following you, watchlist items, although my bots follow everybody on or off Wikipedia). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:12, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 November 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 18:07, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Andrew Jackson (National Statuary Hall Collection) → Statue of Andrew Jackson (U.S. Capitol) – Per WP:VAMOS, which says, "For portrait sculptures of individuals in public places the forms "Statue of Fred Foo", "Equestrian statue of Fred Foo" or "Bust of Fred Foo" are recommended, unless a form such as "Fred Foo Memorial" or "Monument to Fred Foo" is the WP:COMMONNAME. If further disambiguation is needed, because there is more than one sculpture of the same person with an article, then disambiguation by location rather than the sculptor is usually better. This may be done as either "Statue of Fred Foo (Chicago)" (typically preferred for North America) or "Statue of Fred Foo, Glasgow" (typically preferred elsewhere)." See also: Category:Statues of Andrew Jackson --Another Believer (Talk) 04:12, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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