Talk:Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville, Kentucky)

This article was nominated for deletion on 25 April 2024. The result of the discussion was merge.

On 8 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville). The result of the discussion was Procedural close.

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Disambig[edit]

Resolved

@Maliner: Did you mean to create Statue of Roberto Clemente as a disambiguation page? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:13, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think we have two articles now. Maliner (talk) 17:14, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maliner Ok, I've moved the content to Statue of Roberto Clemente and redirected Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville) to Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville, Kentucky). Hope this helps and works for you! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer: My bad there were so many redirects which made me confused. I meant to create Statue of Roberto Clemente as DAB. Thanks for your support. Maliner (talk) 17:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No prob! Will consider this resolved. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer, the state/country name is not added to statue disambiguted names. Only the city name is. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Omnis Scientia: You are free to add it. Maliner (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maliner, the redirect prevents me from removing "Kentucky" from the name. I was the one who added (Louisville) because I created the other page. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Omnis Scientia: Will you please post your request at WP:RM so that I can have a look there? WP:RM is the best place to request uncontroversial moves, which will also help the page mover facilitate moves. Maliner (talk) 17:32, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maliner@Omnis Scientia "Kentucky" should appear in the title, per the parent article Louisville, Kentucky. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:37, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Omnis Scientia: Oops, your request got contested. Maliner (talk) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maliner, the parent article of the location name doesn't matter for statue dabs. All statues names are with city names only regardless of parent article. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's... not.... true. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 January 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close. I am closing this discussion as a procedural close per the consensus below. The final decision to move this article will depend upon the outcome of the move discussion of the parent article, Louisville, Kentucky. Thanks. (closed by non-admin page mover) Maliner (talk) 20:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville, Kentucky) → Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville) – Statue disambiguation names for statues located in the United States only have the city name in (), not the state. This is per MOS:VATITLE which states: For portrait sculptures of individuals in public places the forms "Statue of Fred Foo", "Equestrian statue of Fred Foo" or "Bust of Fred Foo" are recommended, unless a form such as "Fred Foo Memorial" or "Monument to Fred Foo" is the WP:COMMONNAME. If further disambiguation is needed, because there is more than one sculpture of the same person with an article, then disambiguation by location rather than the sculptor is usually better. This may be done as either "Statue of Fred Foo (Chicago)" (typically preferred for North America) or "Statue of Fred Foo, Glasgow" (typically preferred elsewhere). If the sculpture has a distinct common name, like the Bronze Horseman, that should be used. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:43, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, per parent article title Louisville, Kentucky. In the example provided, "Chicago" is appropriate because the parent article is Chicago. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:45, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Another Believer, as I mentioned above, that doesn't matter in these cases. All statue names are with city only regardless of what the parent article's name is. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not true at all. What makes you think this? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason I think so is that articles with such names that I've seen are with only city names regardless of parent article of the city. If I'm entirely mistaken or am mixing it with the policy for non-U.S. statue locations, I apologize for that. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:08, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See Category:Statues in Portland, Oregon. "Oregon" is necessary, per parent article Portland, Oregon, because there are other cities called Portland. Disambiguation is helpful to readers. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:58, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Another Believer What do you think of moving Louisville, Kentucky to Louisville, as we have only one article like Chicago? Maliner (talk) 17:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That discussion belongs at Talk:Louisville, Kentucky. Until the city page is moved, the title of this article should also include "Kentucky". ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Another Believer: Do you consider moving Louisville, Kentucky, to Louisville as uncontroversial per WP:Common Name and WP: Concise? Maliner (talk) 17:58, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest submitting a move discussion on the city's talk page, so folks can weigh in. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:06, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it will not be that much easy as expected as there are other Louisville too. Maliner (talk) 18:11, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Omnis Scientia: You may want to follow Another Believer; if you succeed in moving Louisville, Kentucky, to Louisville, you can ping me, and I will perform this page move for you. I think you should request at WP:RM to get the opinions of others. In that case, Believer will not have any objection either. Am I right?Maliner (talk) 18:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's correct. If Louisville, Kentucky is moved to Louisville, then this article should be moved to Statue of Roberto Clemente (Louisville). ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:22, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let's see what our patrolling admin, Robertsky, says about this. Maliner (talk) 18:26, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Maliner, if you think that is a better way to go then we can close this requested move as "keep" and focus on the parent article as suggested by @StefenTower below. Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:05, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I support this idea, but as the chief maintainer of WP Louisville (for starters), if I started the RM, the effort may appear tainted due to my bias. I would also choose to recuse myself from the !vote. However, if someone else started the RM for that, I would present reasons for doing it. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 20:33, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@StefenTower, there was an RM - Talk:Louisville,_Kentucky#Requested_move_24_January_2023 - last year which was mostly against. Should I go ahead with it? Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:45, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many major cities have small town name equivalents. I've done a review of this matter before, and all the other Louisvilles are puny in comparison to Louisville in Kentucky. If this becomes a discussion again, I will find my previous analysis and bring it there. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 19:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That has been tried before, and the discussion ends up with people saying we go by the AP standard, which I would argue has been inadequate, but there ya go. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 19:33, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. Either name seems reasonable at this juncture. However, I'm not sure this is big enough a concern to have started a community process over it. Like mentioned above, what if we put this energy into finally moving Louisville, Kentucky to Louisville, then everything else can follow. I think there is plenty rationale to snub the AP on this matter and the Wikipedia go its own way. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 19:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Baseball has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:38, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Sculpture has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:38, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject United States has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:38, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Visual arts has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:38, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Refs[edit]

---Another Believer _(Talk) 14:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]