Talk:Stereotypes of East Asians in the United States

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment (October 2016)[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: RaymondLaser, Kliu38.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment (March 2017)[edit]

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gchan8.

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Move (2009) I moved this page[edit]

I engaged in Wikipedia:Be bold. This page focuses (almost) solely on East Asians, so I did the appropriate thing and I moved it. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

I removed the drive-by tagging on improving references. Please discuss what sections need improving, alternatively please tag specific issues.[citation needed]--Work permit (talk) 01:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetual Foreigner[edit]

I have expanded upon the existence or non-existence of Asian Americans in prime time television. King of Queens The O.C.

They are examples of Asians Americans being written off from American television screens and if the series like the O.C., which is shown in over 50 countries shows that there are no Asians in America, then that is a very unfortunate situation for Asian Americans.

Nemogbr (talk) 19:00, 5 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 19:00, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Uh, what about Hawaii 5-0? Both the old and new versions had prominent Asian Americans in the cast... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.92.250.42 (talk) 15:54, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Driving skills[edit]

It seems like one of the most common stereotypes about asian people is that they are poor, or inconsiderate drivers.. Although I don't want to encourage people to pass on this impression, I an article about asian stereotypes should have a section about this.. I don't have any studies or emperical evidence about the veracity of this claim.. But whether it is trueor not, it is definitely a stereotype that asian people have to deal with.

Please cite wp:rs, and it better be more then a passing reference from a marginal source--Work permit (talk) 05:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

you're asking me to source a claim about a stereotype? Even if Asians were statistically the best drivers in the world, that wouldn't change the fact that the stereotype still exists. And if there is anyone reading this, who has never heard the claim that Asians were bad drivers, please speak up! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.130.25.164 (talk) 12:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If a stereotype is prominent and worth mentioning in an encyclopedia, then it should have some form of documentation. If it doesn't, then it wouldn't be notable. The goal of Wikipedia is to have all information based on its documented existence. The best source would be a publication of some sort discussing and exploring that stereotype, probably in a social academic form. Not only does it demonstrate the stereotype is prominent enough to warrant attention and recognition, but also that it has been discussed on a legitimate level. Without a source, it's about as legitimate to someone oblivious to Western stereotypes as an urban legend. I could tell you that anything was a stereotype in some place that you're unfamiliar with and without a source to back up my claim, you might never know if I was misrepresenting one idea I had heard or if it was true at all. The stereotype of Asians and driving just so happens to be a widely received one in the US, but what about in Africa? How should anyone in a different country know whether or not this is a real stereotype of Asians in the Western world? Similarly, if an Indian told you that in Bombay there is a stereotype that Chinese people are excessive spenders, how would you know any better? It could be the most commonly recognized stereotype in Bombay, but you certainly wouldn't know that for sure. It could also be a complete lie, but again, you wouldn't know that. "Everyone knows ________" is not a sufficient rationale because "everyone" is generally limited to an immediate geographic area and culture. That is why a credible source is required--it validates information beyond cultural lines. A proper entry should validate information for anyone, not just those who are privy to those kinds of social norms to begin with. I hope that clarifies the issue. :)Luminum (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At the bottom of page 11 in this PDF, this survey list some of the most frequently mentioned criticisms of asian Americans you will see "Some participants from every focus group said they (Asiam Americans) were bad drivers. Asian Americans. humorously agreed" http://www.committee100.org/publications/survey/C100survey.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.129.193.239 (talk) 15:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That was the most minor observation on the page, a minor finding in one survey. You need to do better then that.--Work permit (talk) 03:05, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I actually haven't heard of any stereotypes listed here, or in any of these stereotype articles. But how can we provide a reliable source for any stereotype? C Teng [talk] 13:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I remember reading a study done about the stereotype. This was in Britain. The Japanese ended up with a bad reputation in the United States due to different driving habits, more traffic in Japanese roads. New Zealanders have the same bad reputation in Japan. I have been searching via google and I have not found the article.

There were some forum posts back in 2005: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/non_aviation/read.main/1008315/

Asian Drivers: Good or Bad? http://www.asian-nation.org/headlines/2006/04/asian-drivers-good-or-bad/

Bad Driving May Have Genetic Basis, Study Finds. http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/10/bad_driving_may.php

Not on the article itself, but certainly from the comments about Asian drivers.

Nemogbr (talk) 22:40, 25 January 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 22:40, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

None of the above constitute a reliable source for that. The last source doesn't say anything about it and the first source is laughable as it is a forum full of racist posts against Asians, Jews, and Blacks. Showbroads89 (talk) 20:18, 26 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Is that not the whole point? The stereotype of Asians being bad drivers? It was specially used against the Japanese. This stereotype also exists in New Zealand. Japan would be more congested in comparison to New Zealand and the hypothesis would be that New Zealanders would suffer from the same driving ability or lack thereof if driving in Tokyo. At the moment, Somalis are ascribed with this stereotype. They have international licenses, but London is more congested than Somalia.

Nemogbr (talk) 16:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 16:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I hear this stereotype all of the time. Someone should just make a poll on facebook or somewhere where it's anonymous about asians being bad drivers and cite the results.

Based on statistics, this stereotype seems more myth than fact. Asians in the US has the lowest vehicle fatality rate. Half the rate of the US average.

Vehicle Fatality rate by Race in the United States (age adjusted per 100,000)

Native American: 29.1

White: 15.0

Black: 14.6

Hispanic: 13.4

Asian: 7.3

US Average: 14.5

Source: National Vital Statistics System 2007, CDC 2011 RiseBell (talk) 02:51, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Asian Pride[edit]

I highly agree and actually recognize the fact that we Asians have been devalued and continue to be today. The slogan "Asian pride" represents our feeling of being oppressed by, of course, Caucasians, and sometimes, other races. Asian males are perceived as being weak and Asian females are perceived as being sexual with Caucasian males- well that is a spit and stomp in the face to us (what a disgrace!, as I'll add). Asian males are portrayed as not having a strong sexuality with females, and the media and television (AND HOLLYWOOD) still follow those lines. We need to fight for equality. Not physically, but in peaceful assemblies to force this knowledge upon the country. Also, our people are very strong (have you seen the Asian weightlifters?), and I mean physically, not just mentally. Psychologically, I believe that as Caucasians are becoming threatened that we have become braver, they are trying more than ever to suppress us. Speak out for Asians, and recognize that we are regular people just like everyone else.

That's nice, but this page is the talk page, which is utilized to discuss edits and additions to the main page. Given that the page is about the stereotypes of East Asians in the US, a section about Asian Pride would not be suitable. Perhaps the page on Asian-Americans is more suitable?Luminum (talk) 17:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I really agree with you that white people are feeling inadequate. After all their crimes against humanity, they still cannot compete economically. I honestly do think that anything that black people can't beat whites at, asians can. And that means all sports, patents, and fundamental advantages, economics, life span... White supremacy is a joke made by insecure 'blushing albinos'. Racism towards whites can be justified in the context of self-preservation, and hatred towards them can be considered justifyible vengeance.

Asian views on Asians[edit]

I removed the following from the article because this article, per its title, only deals with Western stereotypes of Asians:

Japanese media have also at times sensationally promoted the negative stereotype of Japanese women overseas as "yellow cabs".[1]

--71.111.194.50 (talk) 11:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Ma, Karen (1996). The Modern Madame Butterfly: Fantasy and Reality in Japanese Cross-Cultural Relationships. Tuttle Publishing. ISBN 0804820414.

Corresponding Article?[edit]

Is there a corresponding article for Africans or Hispanics? e.g. Stereotypes of Africans in the Western world? Because I can't find them, and if only one on East Asians exist, I nominate this article for deletion. --71.255.72.165 (talk) 01:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some examples of what I found: Stereotypes_of_South_Asians, Stereotypes_of_Arabs_and_Muslims, Stereotypes_of_Hispanics, Stereotypes_of_Native_Americans, and Stereotypes_of_West_and_Central_Asians. The main difference here is that the categorization of this article focuses specifically on Western-originating stereotypes whereas the other articles merely state that most stereotypes originate in the Western world. This may be a case of over-categorization in the title, but the content has the same focus. Either way, that would not make it viable for outright deletion in lieu of the ability to redirect or reshape the article to me more broad or focusing articles to specific political and geographical lenses.Luminum (talk) 02:38, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The stereotypes in these articles do not even hold for the majority of the people described in these articles, and the articles should be deleted due to libelous information. --71.255.72.165 (talk) 02:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You asked if other categorized articles exist and they do. Whether the quality is ideal is another issue. If that's the case, then proper articles should be formed assuming that the content has basis. If the content can be sourced, then they should stand rather than being deleted. There are more that exist, which you can find in the "By group" section of Stereotype. Looking through some of them, while some appear to be weak articles, others do not. I am not a judge of whether or not certain stereotypes described in these pages are legitimate, but I'm not certain you would be either. What we can go on is the sourced material and if none exists, it should be removed. If it does have a reputable source, it seems like quite a leap to call it "libelous information."Luminum (talk) 02:56, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup Needed on this Article[edit]

This article appears to have a lot of synthesis in it. Please take a look at Stereotypes of African Americans for a good example of how this page should be. Eros2250 (talk) 18:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By this I mean there needs to be Reliable Sources which are universally accepted. Right now, there is a lot of original research and synthesis going on this article. A lot of the sources are college essays written by college students. These are not reliable sources. Again please take a look to see what constitues a reliable source. Please see Wikipedia:No original research. Again, the African American Stereotypes article is a good example to follow. Eros2250 (talk) 18:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also find it equally concerning that much of the content is supported by only one author who may or may not be considered a reliable source. This article is below Wikipedia's standards for an encyclopedia article. Eros2250 (talk) 19:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've begun fixing some citations, to make it the sources clearer, and potentially use them for additional material. There are a couple of sources which are op-ed/opinion pieces, which is certainly not wp:rs. I left them in for now.--Work permit (talk) 23:16, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Work Permit, that is very helpful as the citations had a lot of issues with them. Also thanks for spotting the opinion pieces. Eros2250 (talk) 01:07, 2 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Non-stereotype information[edit]

I removed the following paragraph because it does not address stereotypes. I believe this paragraph should be removed because it describes several notable incidents that have occured. However, it says absolutely nothing about Western attitudes toward Asians, rather it describes emprical occurences. If the paragraph showed how these events changed the stereotype of the model minority, that would be different, but that's not what is happening in the paragraph as it exists:

The Asian Americans model minority construct was shaken by a string of incidents involving Asian Americans engaging in criminal or unethical behavior.[1][2] In 2007, Asian Americans were implicated in cheating scandals, shooting sprees, and political corruption. Most notable is the Virginia Tech massacre by Seung-Hui Cho, which led to the deaths of 33 individuals, including Cho himself. The shooting spree, along with Cho's Korean ethnicity, stunned the Asian American community.[3] Other scandals which made headlines were the arrests of Norman Hsu, a former campaign donor to Hillary Clinton, Ed Jew, the former San Francisco Supervisor, and Kyung Joon Kim, a former Los Angeles City Commissioner who served as a business partner to current South Korean president Lee Myung-bak. Also in 2007, 34 MBA students, primarily of East Asian descent, were caught in a major cheating scandal at Fuqua School of Business of Duke University. Of those 34 students, 9 were permanently expelled, 15 were suspended for one year, and the rest received failing grades.[4]

--71.111.194.50 (talk) 10:51, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure it does just that by stating that it damaged the image of the model minority. Onlybest12 (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We cannot engage in original research or make unwarranted conclusions. We know these events occured, factually. But we have no evidence that these caused stereotypes to change, attitudinally. --71.111.194.50 (talk) 04:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the wording so that it is just stating the facts now. However, I must admit, a lot of this article is original or fringe research to begin with. I wonder how its only this article that has all the odd research and not the black/hispanic/non east asian/arab stereotype articles? Onlybest12 (talk) 18:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let's see what everyone else says. Personally, I still think that the whole paragraph should be removed because it does not at all talk about whether non-Asians' attitudes toward Asians have changed--that's what the whole article is supposed to be about. But I appreciate what you're doing. In response to your question, I understand your puzzlement...Why doesn't this type of article exist for other ethnic groups? Well, in the U.S. perhaps stereotypes of African Americans are an uber-hot botton issue that nobody wants to touch with a ten foot pole. Asian American studies is a growing field, but not as politicized as African American studies. As for Arab Americans, they are probably depicted less in the popular media, moreover, they are unfortunately cast into a strictly narrow set of roles (i.e. usually terrorist)--there has been lots of research pointing out how narrowly and negatively they have been cast. Moreover, I hope I'm not stereotyping (I mean, it's not a stereotype if it's something that can be proven or disproven with empirical statistics) but Asian Americans are probably disproportionately present on the internet due to higher levels of income and education (I'm pretty sure the wikipedia articles about household income in America state their higher mean income.) Anyway, this is an article talk page and I'm afraid someone will yell at us for using this as a forum for opinion -- Dpr71.111.194.50 (talk) 04:55, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Physical stereotypes: Teeth[edit]

This link provides a whole host of information that case used to exemplify and/or critique the physical stereotype of East Asian teeth: http://ask.metafilter.com/87239/Asian-stereotype-why-the-exaggerated-front-teeth. --71.111.192.79 (talk) 20:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Eyeglasses[edit]

I wonder if this 19th century cartoon regarding Japan, China, and Russia reveals early stereotypes about Asians with eyeglasses (just a theory): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_Japan_Russia_Coree.png --达伟 (talk) 17:53, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is a stereotype for Asians.--RaymondLaser (talk) 16:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Our big cultural heritage, our awful little secrets"
  2. ^ "Some Korean Americans fearful of racial backlash"
  3. ^ "Sadly, Cho is Most Newsworthy APA of 2007"
  4. ^ "Duke Cheating Case Hits Asian Students"

Stereotypes of Asian women[edit]

"Hypersexuality" word is misused[edit]

The paragraph following the subheading "Hypersexuality" does not actually describe hypersexuality as defined by Wikipedia: Hypersexuality. I think a more appropriate heading might be "Sexual submission stereotype" or something. Thoughts? RawwrBag (talk) 06:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The servile stereotype belongs in another section (I reworded the paragraph to reflect that). The hypersexual stereotype can be referenced (see for example "The Hypersexuality of Race: Performing Asian/American Women on Screen and Scene" by ParreñasShimizu). --Work permit (talk) 05:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Asian American Women Stereotypes[edit]

There should be a section on Asian American Women Stereotypes such as the "Dragon Lady" and the "China Doll." These seem to have been written in older revisions of the page, however they are now removed? Alexisnine (talk) 20:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I have added Ling Woo as the Dragonlady stereotype. As she was the only one on network television at the time, there was no one else.

Moved The World of Suzie Wong from hypersexual section and placed it on the China Doll section. I have also added Destination Tokyo and Miss Saigon as examples. Nemogbr (talk) 23:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 23:29, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.blackpast.org/?q=contributor/patton-tracey

Dr. Tracey Owens Patton is an Associate Professor of Communication in the Department of Communication and Journalism at The University of Wyoming. Her Ph.D. in Communication is from the University of Utah, while her undergraduate and master’s degrees are from Colorado State University. She has authored a number of academic articles on topics involving the interdependence between race, gender, and power and how these issues interrelate culturally and rhetorically in education, media, and speeches.

From her various writing she does have relevant data.

I will also add what Darrell Hamamoto said regarding Ling Woo.

Nemogbr (talk) 19:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 19:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Altered titles:
  • Hypersexuality and the Dragon Lady
  • China Doll and Madama Butterfly.

It looks appropriate.

Nemogbr (talk) 02:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 02:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I like it too--Work permit (talk) 03:41, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It has been mentioned that Madama Butterfly tends to be less used in contemporary times and Miss Saigon would be more appropriate. I'll change the title to China Doll and Miss Saigon. Hope people agree.

Nemogbr (talk) 18:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stereotypes of Asian Men[edit]

Predators of White Women[edit]

Decided to add The Bitter Tea of General Yen as example of predatory behaviour on white women stereotype. Also linked 1916 film Patria.

There may be some contemporary version. Showdown in Little Tokyo perhaps?

Nemogbr (talk) 23:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 23:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Emasculation and Asexual Martial Artist stereotype[edit]

I was wondering why this stereotype is missing?

It does have plenty of examples in the media.

From David Carradines KungFu. Even Charlie Chan.

Chow Yun Fat in Replacement Killers Jet Li in Romeo must die

"Orientals can kick ass, but can't get a kiss."

Nemogbr (talk) 22:43, 25 January 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 22:43, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Added entry regarding Long Duk Dong of Sixteen Candles as example of Supernerd and emasculation of Asian men.

Have to note: Long Duk Dong got the girl!! She also looked good.

Added Romeo Must Die as example of aseuxal martial artist. Romeo and Juliet adaptation, but all Jet Li got was a hug.

Nemogbr (talk) 23:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 23:34, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Misogynists[edit]

Joy Luck Club seems appropriate for this section. Need more data on anything else in particular about the book and film that is hostile to Asian men.

Nemogbr (talk) 23:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC) --Nemogbr (talk) 23:41, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stereotypes in Western World or the United States?[edit]

It seems that the title of the article is stereotypes in the Western World, but the whole article is basically about stereotypes in the United States with only brief references to Canada and Australia. I don't think Europe is mentioned at all unless I missed it. Shouldn't there be more info about stereotypes in other Western countries? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.163.43.102 (talk) 18:04, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Imagery in Advertising, and Teeth[edit]

Here's an example of stereotypical imagery of East Asians from advertising from the 1960s: http://www.atomicantiques.com/chinese-cherry.jpg . However, on balance, here is a compilation of all the figures used in the company's advertising, some of which also have "bad" looking teeth: http://www.atomicantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/funny-face-fan-club.jpg. --达伟 (talk) 19:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Poor English skills[edit]

How come limited english language skills was omitted I think that is a noteworthy stereotype. Dwanyewest (talk) 15:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is an editor that is attempting to vandalise the page. At least, someone already undid the damage.

Nemogbr (talk) 18:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Positive Stereotypes[edit]

The title for this article should be 'Negative Stereotypes' because it completely ignores positive stereotypes. For example, a common example of a positive Asian stereotype is that they highly value education and academic achievement.

Note the definition of stereotype:

Sociology . a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes.

There is nothing in the definition of stereotype that implies a positive or negative connotation. Thus when discussion purely negative or positive stereotypes, it is most accurate to use the adjective negative or positive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.29.243.101 (talk) 14:13, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, though I'm mentioning it nearly 3 years later, what's wrong with being considered intelligent, industrious, technologically savvy, self-disciplined, self-sufficient, and law-abiding?
Which of these traits is "negative" (or even false)? --Uncle Ed (talk) 15:35, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which of these are demonstrably true? What does it mean to be true? Is it true of all the people or just a majority? If a majority, then what percent of the population? Is it just a simple majority (50%), super-majority (67%) or some other number? Can you quote some reliable source on this?
  • As an aside, there are "positive" stereotypes in the sense that they associate qualities that society deems to be good to have. However, these stereotypes do not have necessarily have a positive effect on people. See the following studies: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22positive+stereotypes%22&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5 Transcendence (talk) 00:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what this article looked like in 2010, but there is a section on the "positive" stereotype under model minority now. Transcendence (talk) 00:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother[edit]

This is an article about a book (the article isn't clear what kind of book it is). While overbearing parents is probably a stereotype that can be documented and included on this page, the references needed would be scholarly articles about that stereotype, not a book featuring characters of that stereotype, as that would be original research. We also wouldn't want to use "Tiger Mother" as a stereotype if it's a term coined by this author. Denaar (talk) 19:48, 5 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why on earth is Charlie Chan included in this article?[edit]

I'm an editor that has been inactive for a few months and I've had little experience writing about subjects like stereotypes or racism, but I still don't understand why Charlie Chan is featured on this page. Earl Derr Biggers first created the character (based pretty loosely on a real person called Chang Apana) because he was very upset with the racism that many Chinese people faced in his area, so he created a Chinese hero in response. Are we going to call Zorro, a "good" hispanic stereotype? That character was often played by actors not of Spanish heritage in his early films just as whites often played Charlie Chan. Also, the article doesn't even mention the Asian actors that played Chan in 1920s or the fact that Warner Oland claimed to have some Asian ancestry (Mongolian to be specific.) Plenty of Asians have even spoken out in support of the Chan films like co-star Keye Luke and Henry Lee, a famous forensic scientist. If you're going to include him in this article then you might as well include a section on the Bruce Lee "martial arts" stereotype because I've seen a lot more Asians doing martial arts in films than I have seen them solving crimes. RG (talk) 03:34, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This needs to be fixed. This is horribly wrong[edit]

"For brevity and readability the article will focus, define and henceforth use the term Asian[s] to specifically and exclusively refer to East Asians"

Inaccuracy for the sake of brevity is completely unacceptable. We need to fix this. The way this article is written supports the narrow-minded (racist) notion that Asian = East Asian. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 22:10, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Initial fixes have been made. [1] Thegreyanomaly (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The promise of brevity alone was deceptive. How did this article end up being massive, and heavily illustrated, when Stereotypes of Hispanic and Latino Americans barely rises above a stub? Are Asians really this dramatically more likely to be victims of stereotyping in the West than Latinos are? Sure looks like undue weight to me. Heather (talk) 04:11, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will assume good faith in relation to your comment. I think you are misunderstanding WP:UNDUE. That policy refers to parts of a given article, not between two articles. If you think Stereotypes of Hispanic and Latino Americans does not deserve to be shorter than this article, mobilize editors and improve it. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 02:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@Heather: perhaps the reason why Stereotypes of Hispanic and Latino Americans is so short is due to the amount of available and reliable information to expand that article. Another possibility is the lack of motivation to expand it. For the most part, the information on the other article looks right, but it's more of just a brief overview rather than a more concise amount of info being presented here. Elockid (Talk) 17:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of the phrase 'downright geriatric'[edit]

This offensive phrase, added by one editor, is unacceptable and is being removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ScienceLion (talk • contribs) 14:07, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Madame Butterfly[edit]

If one is going to talk about the opera, then one should mention its source as an American play.

If one is going to talk about "stereotypes", then one should mention that the stereotypes often are simple reflections of reality, and are not some sinister Western creation.

Varlaam (talk) 06:46, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ridicolous[edit]

This page first paragraph is all but neutral. That's a fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.51.90.101 (talk) 17:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lallation[edit]

There's an incoming link from Lallation article, which I couldn't found in this article. Perhaps somebody erased them? In that case, the incoming link should be deleted also. Bennylin (talk) 19:20, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-stereotype bias[edit]

The main point of this article is that stereotypes are false and unfairly harmful. Many people (including quotable sources) would disagree with this viewpoint.

Some stereotypes, specifically those about East Asians are true and "positive" such as hard-working immigrants in America, or mothers who push their children to succeed in education. And what's wrong with being law-abiding? When did that become a "negative" quality, and who thinks that way?

Some stereotypes, even if "negative", are true. At least we know that as a nation Japan allowed (or encouraged) its military to murder and rape in the mid-twentieth century. (Whether this national shame ought to adhere to other Japanese 80 years later is questionable, obviously. Let's discuss that.) --Uncle Ed (talk) 15:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see these quotable sources that disagree with the viewpoint that stereotypes are harmful. Transcendence (talk) 00:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay. I've been thinking about your response, but I never got around to looking for any sources until today. Try this one, which has rejoinders to the following anti-stereotype ideas:
  1. People ascribe a stereotype to everybody in the subject group.
  2. Stereotypes exaggerate group characteristics.
  3. Stereotypes blind us to individual characteristics.
  4. The real function of stereotypes is to bolster our own self-esteem.
John Derbyshire's article is based on the book Stereotype Accuracy by two Asian authors. --Uncle Ed (talk) 16:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Movies[edit]

Should there be a mention about how movies where Asian men do have scenes showing their sexual relationships with non-Asian partners often get poor reviews? Take the Jet Li example. In his movie The One there's a complex story about the multiverse and merging universe theory that moonlights as a typical action kungfu movie but most reviews are bad and insulting. In the movie he is married to a white woman and there are several scenes showing intimacy including the white woman speaking Chinese and wedding photos showing a Chinese wedding. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.122.165 (talk) 17:10, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Consumption of dog meat[edit]

The anecdotal evidence presented in the statement made by May Lee Chai is not realistic. The consumption of dog meat is pretty wide spread in places like China. Her claim that consumption of dog meat in China is "false information" is clearly biased, and completely untrue. Check Dog meat and Dog meat consumption in South Korea. Consumption of dog meat in these places is not localized to a few restaurants. The stereotype exists because the consumption of meat deemed taboo by Westerners does indeed occur quite often in East Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.219.79.142 (talk) 09:56, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The articles you referenced do not say anywhere that dog met consumption is widespread or a common staple. One article states in relation to South Korea, "Although a fair number of South Koreans (anywhere from 5 to 30%) have eaten dog meat at least once in their lifetime, only a small percentage of the population eats it regularly." No where does it mention that a substantial portion or majority of the population actually consumes dog in fact. Nippler998 (talk) 22:15, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There is a substantial population in East Asian that has, or currently does eat dog meat. From the dog meat page: "Dog meat (Chinese: 狗肉; pinyin: gǒu ròu) has been a source of food in some areas of China from around 500 BC, and possibly even earlier." There is a long history of dog consumption in China, which is where the stereotype comes from. From the dog meat page: "According to Apple Daily June 21, 2013 report, in Yulin, Guangxi the locals were celebrating the "lychee dog meat festival" where thousands of dogs are slaughtered. Again, the slaughtering of thousands of dogs in one area of China for one festival is more than enough proof that dog consumption is wide spread. Anecdotal evidence, like that supported by author May Lee Chai, does not belong on any Wikipedia page. It would be like if I stated I've never met a poor person in Texas, so therefore, there are no poor people here, or very little. The culture of dog consumption is wide spread in East Asia. From the dog meat page: "In South Korea (officially the Republic of Korea) dog meat is eaten nationwide and all year round, although it is most commonly eaten during summer." It's nationwide, and all year long. This more than satisfies the burden of proof that the consumption of dog meet occurs often in East Asia. It does not necessarily have to be the majority of the population in order for stereotypes to exist. There is a substantial portion of the population that does eat dog though. Further reading here: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/21/world/la-fg-wn-china-dolphin-dog-meat-20130621 http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/stories/annual-dog-meat-festival-continues-to-divide-chinese-public.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.219.79.142 (talk) 23:31, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So what you are saying is that it is not a stereotype, but rather a fact as some do in fact eat dog as shown in the links. I have removed the unsourced statement that it is a mere stereotype. Nippler998 (talk) 23:56, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

^Okay but the assumption that all Asians eat dog meat is a stereotype because it is overgeneralizing the fact that some regions in Asia partake in the consumption of dog meat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.121.32.61 (talk) 03:06, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edward Said?[edit]

Does this really belong in an article specifically about stereotypes of *east* Asians? Most of Said's work on Orientalism pertains to the middle east and and south asia. This seems like something added for ideological reasons that has very little to do with the actual subject of the article.~~

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Racial Microaggressions[edit]

What some people don't know racial microaggresions are another form of racism that are meant to be indirect statements or questions that direct towards different ethnic people. White Americans use this method as way to discriminate non-white Americans, such as African Americans, Latino Americans, and Asian Americans. It is used as a tool to stereotype Asian Americans in a more subtle, ambiguous way. These racial microaggressions are unintentional; they are operated in a way to be unnoticeable or consciously aware of the insults. For example, one of the eight themes; Exoticization of Asian American women <ref>[2], they emphasis the idea that Asian American women are stereotyped as a very submissive women. They are being acknowledged as Lotus Blossom, Dragon Lady, or China Doll. An Asian woman have been asked by men if she knew if she can do all the sex positions that are from a pornography book. Therefore, racial microaggression is a tool, a way that White Americans can be explicit in a statement or a question and would still seem hurtful and distressing to Asian Americans. Kliu38 (talk) 03:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Evaluation of this Article[edit]

In the section titled “Infantilization,” the source defending the terminology comes from a famous actor, not an academic source. The quote does not support the idea that all East Asians, young or old, are seen as babies. The quote is more of an opinion about American ideology than fact.

Although there was a small section about the portrayal of Asian women in pornography, the information only included the anatomical, not social, discrimination Asian women face. There was no information about how violence against Asian women occurs in porn due to the “submissive” sexual stereotype. Kcalho3 (talk) 14:59, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Evaluation of this article[edit]

Is each fact referenced with an appropriate, reliable reference? Yes, the facts are referenced with an appropriate reference. All of the references are in the references section at the end of the article. Is everything in the article relevant to the article topic? Is there anything that distracted you? Yes, everything in the article is relevant to the topic on stereotypes of East Asians in the United States.Gchan8 (talk) 20:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

racist reasoning of lost wars: It doesn't mention that the allied forces had better industry, resources and combatant able population[edit]

The Japanese are extremely intelligent, but lost the World Word II, because the less mentally bright Caucasians, didn't stuck to one specific model of absolute world domination. The Japanese is more intelligent, but sometimes gets trapped on being analytical about something very specific, whilst the less bright Caucasian makes continuously minor mistakes which act as tests. Thus conduct global tests, statistics and analyses consciously to mimic that effect. All people make mistakes. If one cannot make a small mistake, then he or she will make a big one.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:410C:2F00:25BB:C8A2:CB4B:AA5D (talk) 22:16, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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heading retitling[edit]

Read WP:HEAD. In response to [3], the titling has nothing to do with racism but poor reading. The article should be cohesive but it currently reads like chunkily like a list.68.151.25.115 (talk) 01:05, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Perpetual foreigner article started[edit]

I wanted to notify watchers of this article that a new Perpetual foreigner article has been started, which covers the stereotype as applied to the Asian American community and beyond; previously that link was a redirect to a section of this article.--Pharos (talk) 11:46, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:11, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Madama Butterfly[edit]

General consensus over whether or not this opera is racist is divided. The article mentions some arguments against the opera, but I believe we should add some defending it as well. Whenever controversies are mentioned on Wikipedia, multiple arguments are nearly always shown due to Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy.

Amadeus1928 (talk) 22:00, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stereotypes of Southeast Asians redirects to this page[edit]

Stereotypes of Southeast Asians redirect to this page, but is not mentioned in title or having a section. Doremon764 (talk) 03:36, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 May 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) 何をしましたか？那晚安啦。 08:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Stereotypes of East Asians in the United States → Stereotypes of East and Southeast Asians in the United States – The article (citations and text) extensively covers both the East and Southeast subregions of Asia as their stereotypes are largely one of the same. "Stereotypes of East and Southeast Asians in the United States" is already a redirect to the article. 114.206.44.90 (talk) 01:03, 5 May 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:07, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 18:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object to speedy move the AAPI racism usually also brings in Pacific Islanders, so this could use discussion. Also the reach of "East Asian" depends on definition, some definitions include Southeast Asians -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 03:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Showiecz (talk) 03:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The article seems to cover Southeast Asian as well as East Asian stereotypes. TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 00:54, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Chipmunkdavis: I see you reverted this page move. It is not appropriate to revert the consensus resulting from a formal discussion just because one of the participants (the nominator) was an unregistered user who was using a VPN (that is, was editing from an IP address that was later blocked as a VPN). While VPN addresses are automatically blocked, "legitimate users [...] may freely use proxies until those are blocked" (WP:PROXY). Even if the IP address had been banned for "sockpuppetry" as your edit summary said, there were other participants supporting the move, so this is not appropriate WP:BLOCKEVASION revert. If you thought this closure should have been reconsidered, you should have opened a new requested-move discussion or followed the move-review process. SilverLocust 💬 21:08, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It would not be sensible wp:buro to devote more editors' time to this banned user associated with serial weird OR and POV pushing who used one sock to rewrite the article to their particular obsessions and another sock to try and get a technical move request through on the basis of their other sock's edits, the move request of which was voted on purely based on the edits of the other sock, and which had already been contested by someone else. CMD (talk) 02:11, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While I don't think it's bureaucracy to discuss before (re-)reverting the decision of an RM (indeed, after the reverter said to discuss before reverting it), I will acknowledge that I didn't realize Showiecz had also been blocked. (The link doesn't show up as blocked with the strike out usernames that have been blocked setting, since the account was first renamed to Shwcz.) Still, I'm far from certain that the requester is Showiecz, who commented on a lot of RMs over the years. SilverLocust 💬 06:17, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with a claim about Madama Butterfly[edit]

I strongly disagree with the claim that the opera promotes the idea that Asian women exist as disposable objects for white male consumption. Yes it is true that the opera is notorious in these areas, but Pinkerton is not a sympathetic character. Amadeus1928 (talk) 02:36, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Amadeus1928 - If you disagree, you're free to find reliable sources that assert that opinion and add it. That claim cites an article from the Japan Times.[4] The article doesn't mention anything pan-Asian or even pan-East Asian. It specifically talks about stereotypes of Japanese women in Western eyes. And to equate Japan as being the sole country in Asia/even East Asia, or that East Asian stereotypes are applied to every single Asian country as a whole is incorrect and ignorant. More insidious perhaps is the opera's enduring fantasy of Japanese women as self-sacrificing and, the helpless victims of cruel and powerful Western men.
While we're on this topic though, I'd add that there is tendency from sources to equate East Asia and, to a much lesser extent, Southeast Asia as the sole representation of "Asian Americans" or Asians in general which itself isn't true. But understandable given what "Asian" is largely synonymous with in American contexts. The article talking about the "modern Madame Butterfly", "Miss Saigon"[5] mentions "Asian stereotypes" or "Asian American empowerment" in regards to a play centred on a Vietnamese character which itself was based off on a play focused on a Japanese character. But neither East or Southeast Asia represent all "Asian" women, and the source[6] has quotes from Americans of East Asian descent (like Chinese or Korean) but not South Asian Americans or even Southeast Asian Americans. It seems more reasonable that the paragraph should specifically state "East (or Southeast Asian) Asian" but whatever.
There are many sources that support that Americans view Asians as just East Asian descent, appearance and culture.[7][8][9] So much so that some South Asian and Southeast Asian Americans refer to themselves as "Brown" or "Brown Asian [Americans]" because they don't feel represented as "Asian American".[10] But this is a topic for another time and the page is appropriately titled about East Asian stereotypes. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 21:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I know Asian countries are not interchangeable. Yes there is an issue with only East Asians getting the focus. Southeast Asians are frequently ignored and disadvantaged. There is already a separate page for South Asian stereotypes. I just checked the page and I think I misremembered by paraphrasing the sentence about Miss Saigon instead.
Amadeus1928 (talk) 22:00, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 September 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:37, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stereotypes of East Asian Americans in the United States → Stereotypes of East Asians in the United States – "East Asian Americans in the United States" is a tautology.The article does not exclusively focus on stereotypes of East Asians in the U.S., but rather Americans' perspectives on East Asians as a whole. —theMainLogan (t•c) 14:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). —theMainLogan (t•c) 20:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 20:19, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • strong oppose I don't see how this is a tautology. "Stereotypes in the United States" would be the base of the tree. This article by its title should be about stereotypex existing in the United States about a subset of its citizens, those of East Asian extraction, then East Asian Americans. If you saw "Stereotypes of African Americans in the United States" would you also say it should be "Stereotypes of Africans in the United States" (of Africans in Africa, for example) ? Clearly stereotypes of African Americans and stereotypes of Africans are different, are they not? Indeed Stereotypes of East Asians in the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) should be a separate article on this different topic. -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 05:59, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    "If you saw 'Stereotypes of African Americans in the United States' would you also say it should be 'Stereotypes of Africans in the United States'(of Africans in Africa, for example) ?" No, I would shorten it to "Stereotypes of African Americans". And it's bewildering how quickly your argument strays off-topic. —theMainLogan (t•c) 14:06, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    IT is a counter example. It isn't offtopic. In any case, you haven't addressed the issue. "East Asian" is not the same as "East Asian Americans", since East Asians in Asia are not Americans, whereas East Asian Americans are Americans. That's two separate independent topics. Same as Italian Americans and Italians of Italy are not the same topic. Stereotypes of Italian Americans are not the same as stereotypes of Italians. If you cannot see the difference between American and non-American, that's a big problem, as the SCOPE of this article is nominally about stereotypes in the U.S. about subset of Americans, and not stereotypes in the U.S. of all people of East Asian extraction, regardless of where they reside or what citizenship they carry. -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 04:51, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Regardless of what point you're trying to prove, despite its title, the article doesn't seem to be about Asians in the U.S. alone, but East Asians in general. —theMainLogan (t•c) 13:25, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support rescoping of article, which implies this retitle. Red Slash 21:56, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Stereotypes of East Asian Americans - I can understand that there is somethign of a confusion of scope here, but as the OP says above, were this regarding African Americans we would retitle as "Stereotypes of African Americans". Well this is the same thing. The article appears to be about East Asian Americans generally. It is not about attitudes prevalent within the US towards East Asians generally.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:36, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Rreagan007 (talk) 21:08, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support title change and rescoping to broader topic. – GnocchiFan (talk) 06:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support title change and proposed rescoping per those above. BD2412 T 01:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disagree With 'Big Bang Theory Stereotyping'[edit]

To be honest, all four of the main characters show a lack of ability to socialise with most women. I don't really think that it is a stereotypical thing. And0wik! (talk) 10:12, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any East Asians in the cast of Bib Bang Theory? Dimadick (talk) 10:38, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Psychology of Gender[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 January 2024 and 28 April 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Xjiang38 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Zisha68 (talk) 02:33, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting an article rename[edit]

Instead of stereotypes of east asians in united states why not stereotypes of east asians in the west? or just "stereotypes of east asians". the world is not just america Deltakun (talk) 09:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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