Talk:Subdivisions of Scotland

This article is written in Scottish English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Why this article title?[edit]

I'm not quite clear why this article is at this title. Its "bold title" is different (and probably more logical). "Subdivisions" is neither the formal nor the common term for the subject, nor does it describe only these, and no other such. Currently I'd favour a move to council areas of Scotland, or perhaps even merging to local government in Scotland. Alai 01:18, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Subdivisions of Scotland and Local government in Scotland do seem to be different angles on essentially the same subject, and I would tend to support merger of the content of the former into the latter. Perhaps the former could then become an article descibing in summary all the various systems by which Scotland is or has been subdivided, not forgetting Westminster constituencies and Scottish Parliament constituencies and regions. Laurel Bush 14:18, 19 December 2005 (UTC).[reply]

The map[edit]

The map shows most of Scotland, except the Shetlands, which are not even depicted in an inset map, as is often done with remote territorial fragments such as islands and exclaves in order to save "empty map space". The same goes for maps of the United Kingdom and England, which sometimes fail to take into account that the Isles of Scilly and of Wight are in England, and not a foreign country like the Man. Perhaps these maps should be altered to reflect this? //Big Adamsky 20:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The map has presumably been "fixed" since this comment, but it's still unacceptable. Why is Orkney boxed and offset by a small amount to the west? The map is clearly big enough to fit it in. Moreover, Shetland is not so far away as to warrant its being boxed and moved like this, especially when the map only shows Scotland. This map should be replaced with a proper one as soon as possible. Thorf (talk) 08:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have replaced the map with a more geographically accurate one I created. Orkney is in the correct place and all other islands should be present. XrysD (talk) 22:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Areas not coinciding with council areas[edit]

I am seeng nothing about registration districts and I am wondering what electoral and valuation mean in the context of the artlicle. Laurel Bush 13:43, 27 January 2006 (UTC).[reply]

"electoral registration" and council tax/rates property valuation apparently. For example, there is a Lothian Valuation Joint Board. The list appears to be accurate. It looks like the same agencies do the electoral registation? Morwen - Talk 13:46, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers. I wonder who pays the agencies. The local council(s)? Laurel Bush 18:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Glasgow/Health[edit]

Glasgow is listed twice in the health table - under Greater Glasgow and Lanarkshire. Perhaps it is split? Or perhaps just erronerous. Morwen - Talk 13:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Unitary Authority"[edit]

A newbie (User talk:62.49.29.104) edited this page (and one or two others) yesterday, making the claim that ""Unitary Authority" is not a Scottish designation". I have asked them exactly what they meant by that. But I think I understand what they mean: have a look at these pages:

... here "Hartlepool Unitary Authority" etc is being used as a proper noun: it is actually the official title of the body. This type of usage just does not occur in Scotland, or at least not since the time around the upheaval of 1996. Since then we have settled down to just calling them "Councils", thus:

"Highland Council", never "Highland Unitary Authority" (with caps)
"Clackmannnanshire Council", never "Clackmannanshire Unitary Authority" (with caps)
"Fife Council", never "Fife Unitary Authority" (with caps)

--Mais oui! 14:25, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mais oui, I saw your comment above about Unitary Authorities and it triggered a streak of curiosity in me. I decided to go dig through the legislation at the Office of Public Sector Information to see where the term crops up. I managed to find a reference for England in Statutory Instrument 1994/867: The Local Government Changes for England Regulations 1994, which defines a unitary authority as "any authority which is the sole principal council for its local government area". However I can't find any equivalent definition for Scotland. The closest reference I can get is a description in the explanatory notes of Statutory Instrument 1995 No. 2766 (S.204): The Local Government (Application of Enactments) (Scotland) (No.2) Order 1995, which says "The 'new local authorities' are the unitary authorities on the Scottish mainland which are due to take over existing local authority functions on 1st April 1996". Unfortunately, this is only included in the explanatory note, so it is technically not part of the legislation. As there is no apparent definition of 'unitary authority' for Scotland, this may be what the user was trying to say (though they should probably have explained their case on a discussion page first). Personally, I don't want to get involved in a discussion over whether a description is valid because it is or is not defined in legislation. I just thought that I would share the results of my curiosity. Road Wizard 17:41, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. The presentation of this term in this article needs some further thought. Indeed, I suspect that the term "unitary authority" should be applied to Scottish local authorities very sparingly and not used as their primary descriptor, which I have seen on quite a lot of Wikipedia articles, especially UK-wide ones (and most certainly the abbreviation "UA" or capitalised "Unitary Authority" should never be used). User:Morwen, and other local govt Wiki experts, may want copied in on this discussion. I will contact her after the Easter break. --Mais oui! 18:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One thing you may wish to consider though before making any changes is that the term 'unitary authority' is in common usage. Doing a quick Google search brings up a very large number of pages that refer to unitary authorities in Scotland. These include pages by both private individuals and government departments. Even Falkirk Council refers to itself as a unitary authority. However, I think I will leave it up to the experts to decide whether a legally defined term, or a term in common usage takes precedence on Wikipedia. Road Wizard 19:45, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning[edit]

Are council areas counties? Simply south 12:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No. Scottish local government counties were abolished in 1975. In some contexts, however, eg OS mapping, Scottish council areas have the same status as English counties
Laurel Bush (talk) 10:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Borders[edit]

The borders of the local council areas seem to have been formed by splitting the earlier regions into smaller sections (apart from the areas that stayed the same.) Is this official, or are there councils that incorporate territory from two of the old regions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.241.41.99 (talk) 17:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have it right. Local Government etc (Scotland) Act 1994 might help to confirm. Laurel Bush (talk) 12:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC).[reply]

Dates of creation of council areas[edit]

I read in the article that council areas have been in existence since 1 April 1996, under the provisions of the Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994. I believe the date is actually that of abolition of regions and districts, which were replaced by 29 of the 32 council areas. I believe the first councils for the new areas were elected in 1995, to co-exist with regional and district councils during a change-over period which ended in 1996. The other three areas were created earlier, as islands council areas, under the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973, which abolished counties and burghs in 1975. Laurel Bush (talk) 11:37, 10 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

Map[edit]

Does a superior map exist for this article?
With the font used in this map, I had to use the highest resolution and then magnify it to be able to read the names of the regions. I was looking all over WP articles concerning Scotland to find a map of its regions and I was hoping for a clearer version.
I'll try to find a free image on the Commons but I'm not familiar with this geographic area and if someone more familiar with Scotland knows where an image exists, I would welcome your help! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]