Talk:Submission (novel)

attitude of this book toward Muslims

What is the attitude of this book toward Muslims, and the prospect of such a president of France? Please flesh out this stubby article.-71.174.175.150 (talk) 19:04, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• The only Muslims who are depicted in the book are the French president Ben Abbes who is described as a mix between Napoleon and Augustus. And a handsome converted Belgian professor who becomes head of the Sorbonne, is a specialist of Nietzsche and an admirer of Story of O and lives a luxury life in the former home of Jean Paulhan with a 40 year old wife for cooking good food and a 15 year old wife for sex. The book is not about Muslims. It is about the fate of an average 40-something western professor whose life has no purpose and it puts him in a kind of absurd demonstration that his life would be much better in a completely reorganized society ... Soumission is about Muslims as much as Micromégas is about SETI... Hektor (talk) 17:54, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
• The end of the plot, as described in the article, looks very similar to the conclusion of 1984 - perhaps an intentional shout-out. 85.90.120.180 (talk) 11:16, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Summary

The summary of the book has nothing to do with it. The charia and judicial system fo France for instance are never discussed in the book. The inclusion of existing characters in the book is purely anecdotical and should not been given such an importance. On the contrary, Joris-Karl Huysmans plays a major role and should be mentioned. Hektor (talk) 15:53, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

I developed the article in accordance with available sources. You are of course free to edit it as well. You are French, which might be an advantage for you :) Thanks for any help, expansion or clarification. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 16:19, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Robotic plot translation

Was this part of the article translated directly from French? Feels very robotic and is hard to read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.45.119.27 (talk) 01:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 14 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved by Smetanahue. --BDD (talk) 20:26, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Soumission (novel) → Submission (novel) – As per the Guardian article [1], this novel already has an English name as it will be published by Heinemann in the UK in September. There is atleast a 2011 novel by Amy Waldman titled "The Submission", but that shouldn't be a problem due to having the definite article in the title. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 00:38, 22 July 2015 (UTC) Pudeo' 23:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Comment it would be better as Submission (2015 novel), as the proposed title could be construed as an article on the submission of novel manuscripts for publication -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 04:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

  That's something that came up from the publisher's website when I searched for Submission+Heinemann, but I'm not sure if it would be a Wikipedia topic to consider as a title. --Pudeo' 12:35, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

• Move to Soumission (no parentheses). For the time being, it appears English-language sources are still using "Soumission" rather than "Submission" ([2] vs. [3] on Google News, for example). Additionally, even if it became less common, the French title serves as WP:NATURALDIS, which is preferable to a parentheses.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:39, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
• Comment a search on (Submission OR Soumission) English "Michel Houellebecq" gives references to Soumission. I wouldn't know what "Soumission" was so I think that the parenthesis text is useful. GregKaye 07:23, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
• I didn't see this discussion, but went ahead and moved the article per WP:EN. Smetanahue (talk) 18:34, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

pub dates, translations

Anyone have the pub date of the German translation? that, and other translations, translators, publishers should be added.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:24, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Muslim Brotherhood

Note that the English translation by Stein uses "Muslim Brotherhood" as the name of the political party the fictional Ben Abbes leads, but this in NOT linked in the novel to the Muslim Brotherhood, although, of course, the naming is not by mere chance. Nevertheless - the name of this fictional political party should NOT be linked to the "real" Muslim Brotherhood.E.M.Gregory (talk) 13:39, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

"Islamo-Leftism"

the article must not become a coatrack article (WP:COAT) against the left (and their perceived attitude towards islamism). things would be different if houellebecq had used a term like "islamo-leftism", in the book or in interviews about the book. in the novel, also the UMP supports the fictitious muslim party. --Severino (talk) 08:13, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

I noticed that in the novel, the character "Robert Rediger" uses the term "Islamo-leftism". So, if the word (and the link to the wiki article about the concept) is used here, it must be made clear that it's the view of one of the fictional persons.--Severino (talk) 17:48, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Which Le Pen? There are at least three of them.

The source is unavailable.Xx236 (talk) 10:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Marine Le Pen. I restored the link from Archive.org.

http://web.archive.org/web/20150110183900/http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11383474

--Abolibibelot (talk) 23:08, 31 August 2019 (UTC)