Talk:Swati tribe

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Branches[edit]

The tribe has three major ramifications namely Gaberi, Mitravi and Mamiali. These are then further divided into many sections and subsections. [1] [2]

References

  1. ^ Dorn B. History of the Afghans: translated from the Persian of Neamet Ullah .
  2. ^ Hazara Gazetteer.

Swati a Pashtun tribe[edit]

I have made some minor changes as everyone knows Swadis are Pashtuns but due to some personal grudges with the tribe keep defaming this great Pashtun trib e with a glorious history...I will keep make changes as per books and I had been working on this article since 2004. Haider khan (talk) 21:38, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I had told everyone and then have made some changes, there is no need to interfere when someone wants to glorify this Swadi page!!! Haider khan (talk) 20:14, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Someone please stop editing Swati page, if anyone has objection will be welcomed here!!!! Haider khan (talk) 10:54, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Swadi is a Pashtun tribe not people as someone waisting his time and misleading information. Haider khan (talk) 20:33, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Haider khan What is Pashtunized Pashtuns, can we say durranis are persianized people! 223.123.108.182 (talk) 07:49, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@223.123.108.182 As majority of them speak persian language! 223.123.108.182 (talk) 07:50, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Us param shuvey dey mor beghairata dey oghaim dey swat pukhto jebi gujjar av kasabgar dey zan sara Kari wo .... us hindo darbandey pekh shu us kuna warkava.... kohistani ye darna jor ko 206.84.143.85 (talk) 06:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If possible make the onfo correct, they compare us with kohistani, so if some know about it make the correction of Wikipedia HoneyKhan1234 (talk) 10:06, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Origins[edit]

@Khan Of Naral Swat was Dardic-majority region before Yousafzai Pashtuns came. See, for example, We Are Here to Stay: Pashtun Migrants in the Northern Areas of Pakistan. Because Swatis were also present in Swat before Pashtun colonization; and reliable sources clearly mention them to be non-Pashtun Dardics, there does not seem any reason for dispute here. Sutyarashi (talk) 15:18, 28 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sutyarashi ... its just like you call a Brahmin a Shodar.... that's what bringing in dispute. Azmarai76 (talk) 08:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
in swat there is no one left from. Our family we all swaties of pakhal already clear this, that their is no left swaties, in swat or migrate to swate after 1520,if some consider himself swati tbey are not, we already clear this thing, don,t play with our name behalf of some dardic peolle dNa or reports, cheak our reports in our reports we don't spoke dardic etc shit in past HoneyKhan1234 (talk) 10:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Swatis Origin[edit]

We have two research references. One States Swatis as Pashtuns while other state Swatis as Tajik however there is even not a single reference mentioning Swatis as of Dardic origin. Khan Of Naral (talk) 10:37, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Responding to a request on my talk page: I suggest listing the potential available citations here on this article talk page, not on user talk pages, so that there can be a discussion in one place about which ones should be used in the article. – Fayenatic London 11:42, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
my dear Swatis get offended to be called Dards ... they aren't dards and Gabari and Dari are the languages they spoke. 206.84.143.85 (talk) 06:50, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok where is dari where is ref of dari, its totaly fake, who make this DNA, or changes he is not swati, and wonaony maa bap k bary ma. Ni janta, koshitany e jor ku swatiyano na pa khoor kuss ky omandam dagy 2A00:F28:FF4B:965C:24B4:AC7A:907A:74E1 (talk) 09:51, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This DNa is make from. One o gujjar who live in swat, and send to one of half swati and they publish it HoneyKhan1234 (talk) 10:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Swatis aren't Pashtuns or Dards[edit]

What Dehgan means has already been enteted on Wikipedia and which language is Gabari has been detailed on Iranica۔ I would tell both warring factions to let these people alone and not make them Dards or Pashtuns۔ Azmarai76 (talk) 08:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In past we call dehgan to our that servent wo. Bring water for us from far places HoneyKhan1234 (talk) 10:14, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Origins[edit]

Hi

Seems like this page has become warring ground between wanna be Pashtuns like Haider Khan and funds seeking NGO guys and their minions. Swatis aren't Pashtuns or Dards. If we keep removing the lines for political and financial motives Wikipedia would just end up misleading. Swatis have glorious past and still are powerful so every group want to claim them but the fact their language was Gabari already defined https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrian_Dari_language at Wikipedia and the definition to Dehgan or Dehqan as given at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehqan page. Secondly, Afghans never lived in cities and were considered to be villagers and semi nomadic till recent past themselves so they were called village dwellers by Dehgans and not vice versa. Regards Azmarai76 (talk) 08:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You left a copy of the above on my talk page, and I replied at User_talk:Azmarai76#Neutral_point_of_view. I see that your edits have now been reverted by another editor, because you removed several citations which appear valid.
Do not focus on other editors' motivations. Focus instead on presenting a WP:Neutral point of view based on WP:Reliable sources. If information is missing, then add more info and citations, without removing existing information (unless the latter lacks reliable sources). – Fayenatic London 11:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes brother I know these NGO guys and their ways to make foriegners believe what they say. Azmarai76 (talk) 12:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
wish he had presented the valid and nuetral point of view I would never change it. While you don't have any answer to question of genetic difference between Swatis and Dards. BTW, genetics is key to determination of race in this society.
Azmarai76 (talk) 12:21, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
please just cite some reliable sources for your claims. It is simple as that. Referring to some hypothetical genetic research isn't really helpful. Sutyarashi (talk) 15:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Fayenatic london can you please look into this matter and check whether the random citation tags Azmarai76 has been repeatedly adding after every reference in the article are even valid? Sutyarashi (talk) 15:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
my friends calling genetics "hypothetical" reveals what I am dealing with.
Azmarai76 (talk) 18:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Fayenatic london do tell me if Major Raverty and others arenot Reliable as they were British Servants in words of Sutyarashi and how a genetic study that shows Dards and Swatis two different population not reliable that our friend Sutarashi had to remove the references I put inserted.
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Azmarai76 Raverty is a colonial era source, see WP:RAJ, and hence unreliabe. I did not make these policies. About genetic study, I propose you to cite it here, so it could be verified. Sutyarashi (talk) 01:59, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
oh good you have toned down against him. What do you think about Haroon ur Rashid Bangash 2004 ??? While your source is totally unreliable one's. For genetic study also even the one you want to keep says it all if you read carefully other than the conclusion part. The references in this article were all verifiable online books that you removed.
Azmarai76 (talk) 03:19, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Giuseppe Tucci is an Italian historian, while Arlinghaus, Joseph Theodore has a doctorate in history from Duke University. None of them are unreliable. I have went through your cited genetic research. It doesn't even mention Swatis anywhere. Which means it's completely irrelevant.
On the other hand, can you tell what is expertise of Haroon ur Rashid Bangash? Sutyarashi (talk) 03:34, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He has a doctorate in Anthropology and History. BTW you are going against policy Tabloid Journalism by mentioning sources like we mountains.com and Iranica.com. Do search for better Reliable sources.
Azmarai76 (talk) 03:40, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Encyclopedia Iranica is reliable source. I've removed wemountains per your objection. Rest are WP:RS Sutyarashi (talk) 03:47, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Arlinghaus, Joseph Theodore isn't Reliable too. You know that too. His ignorance of Gabri language and Dari language tells you all. As far as Iranica is concerned it talks of Kapisa and not these Cis-Indus Swatis. It's been quoted here out of context. I see your edits to other pages related to this article also.
Azmarai76 (talk) 04:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tucci, Giuseppe (1977). On Swāt: The Dards and Connected Problems. IsMEO. p. 34. The language of the Swatis being Dardic they were not separately named, but comprised in the denomination of Dards. {{ This is misleading and refers to Swatis living in Swat and not those in Cis-Indus Hazara.
Azmarai76 (talk) 04:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, it does appear that your objection is not on the references, but on the content they support. You've been adding self-published tags after each reference, even though they are not. Sutyarashi (talk) 04:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sutayarshi they are self published ones and got printed by Pashtun fascists. Who try to either label anyone in the region Pashtun or if not Dard.
Azmarai76 (talk) 04:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
we need to improve the references you quoted before we reach consensus. Don't remove tags that I have left here.
Azmarai76 (talk) 05:52, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sutayarshi my friends I respect your efforts and love for Dards but making Tajiks Dards isn't what readers would benefit from. In dardic times Swat was called Udhiyana and not Swat. No Dards were either called Swatis and not even now. Arlinghaus has I guessed ignored these facts totally. Your response to Iranica tells all that you have purposely put sources that are not giving the readers a correct picture.
Azmarai76 (talk) 04:40, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sutayarshi I still see we mountains.com in the references you haven't removed it as you claimed its against the policy Tabloid Journalism.
Azmarai76 (talk) 04:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits[edit]

@Azmarai76 in case you don't know, WP:SELFPUBLISHED means resources which are published by authors themselves. None of the references in the article is self-published, safe one, which is already removed. Also, you are adding irrelevant WP policies, damaging references and sentence structure.

If you don't provide any reliable reference in the support of whatever claim you want to get added, I will restore the last best version. Sutyarashi (talk) 07:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Sir, for telling me but being at Archeology Board I know how these References got picked up. These people aren't Dards and never has any Dard been classified as Swati. For you Raverty, Dorn B. Haroon ur Rashid, Dani all seem worthless. Else, I had already suggested to you those.
Azmarai76 (talk) 10:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are unreliable, not because I say so, but because of WP policies (WP:RAJ and WP:PRIMARY). However, if you mean Ahmad Hasan Dani, then he is a reliable historian. You can cite him at talk page, but be sure to write only what he states.
Like I said previously, if you cannot provide reliable references for whatever you want to add, and cannot give evidence how current sources are unreliable or self-published, I would restore the previous best version. Sutyarashi (talk) 11:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
what's wrong with Haroon ur Rasheed and Other authors like Rafiqi???? BTW if WP:RAJ is applied the first mention of Dards is Gottlieb Wilhelm Leitner a German working under the Raj in that case Dards would cease to exist.
Azmarai76 (talk) 13:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What is expertise of Haroon ur Rashid? By a Google search, he seems to be a brigadier, not a historian. Rafiqi is ok.
Nowhere G. W Leitner is cited in the article, so he's irrelevant. Sutyarashi (talk) 14:13, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would however love to get a reference to your claim that Gabri is a Dardic language by giving me an IOS code to this language.
Azmarai76 (talk) 13:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source states it, not me. If I do, then it would be WP:OR. So you can't say that "I claim" it to be Dardic. However, if can provide reference that it's not, then maybe we can discuss this further. Sutyarashi (talk) 14:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Gottlieb Wilhelm Leitner isn't WP:RAJ؟؟؟
Azmarai76 (talk) 15:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Boyce, Mary (2001), Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices, London: Routledge says it is middle persian so now onus to prove it Dardic is on you please as you did alot of edits to this article۔
Azmarai76 (talk) 15:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It nowhere states that Swatis spoke it. Cite any source which explicitly mentions that the Gabri language spoken by Swatis was Persian/Dari. Different languages can have same name, even Gabri actually refers to multiple languages. And the Gabri spoken by Swatis was Dardic, that's what available references say. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
not at all ۔۔۔۔ if multiple languages are called Gabari and Swatis spoke it please give me IOS code to that effect- Plus you havent told me till now why are Swatis different genetically from Dardic people who genetically related to other groups and not Swatis or Dehgans-
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Like I stated earlier, the content at article is exactly as the sources cite. If you think Swatis are not Dardic or are Tajik/Persian or whatever you think them to be, provide references stating them to be so. That would end the issue. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Azmarai76 till discussion comes to some point, avoid causing any changes to article. Otherwise this may be treated as edit warring. If you continue to do so before discussing at talk page, I will bring this issue at WP:ANI. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I put in WP:RSPIMPROVE for you and let you know also my venerable and learned friend۔ which you didn't take into consideration-
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The link WP:RSPIMPROVE states Consensus can change. If circumstances have evolved since the most recent discussion, new evidence has emerged that was not available at the time, or there is a new line of argument not previously covered, consider starting a discussion or a request for comment (RfC) at the reliable sources noticeboard.
Failed to see how it is relevant here. If you think the references are not reliable, you should go to WP:RSN. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do answer my questions on Leitner and Sir George Abraham Grierson OM KCIE FBA؟؟ Are they both not WP:RAJ ؟؟؟ Azmarai76 (talk) 16:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes they are WP:RAJ. However, they are not cited in the article, that's why I doubt that they are relevant. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
so you agree they have been Cited against the Wikipedias policy ؟؟؟ elsewhere as WP:RAJ isn't for one article but for whole Wikipedia۔ Isn't it؟؟؟
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah you're right. Feel free to remove RAJ-era references, especially on the caste-related topics. Note that it applies on the books themselves, that's, books published before 1947. Modern historians may make reference to such authors, by critically examining the sources. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also please do tell me what are the IOS codes of multiple Gabris as you are suggesting۔
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:40, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's disambiguation page for them. For Southern Gabri, it's https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/gab while for Zoroastrian Gabri, it's https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/gbz. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is it Africa this article talks about؟؟؟ You have reverted changes without improving your references۔ Azmarai76 (talk) 16:51, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Take this issue to WP:RSN. I'm not going to replace it when it's perfectly fine. Giuseppe Tucci is a credible historian. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
you just are getting edit war and threatening me instead۔ Is that appropriate؟؟؟
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not threatening or edit warring; one can see going through page history that who's making a lot of unconstructive changes. I'm willing to discuss it further if you just provide sources (I think I'm repeating it for fifth or sixth time). Sutyarashi (talk) 16:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Azmarai76 if you have think the references are unreliable, take them to discussion noticeboard with other editors. If you think that this issue cannot be solved by just talk page discussion, go to for dispute resolution.
I'm not going into circles any further, especially since you haven't provided any single source in support of your claims. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes i will definately before I make Sure people get quality info on Wikipedia۔ Do tell me why these people are different genetically۔
Azmarai76 (talk) 16:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Provide source stating that they are remarkably different from their neighbours, I doubt that is the case. Sutyarashi (talk) 16:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
please that is the case but its been third time you are threatening me۔ please stop doing that۔
Azmarai76 (talk) 17:00, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BTW Dards aren't neighbours to these people mentioned in this article۔
Azmarai76 (talk) 17:02, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think I did put in study from Habib & Tariq that showed Swatis altogether than Dards that you deleted the way you just even removed my tags for review and betterment of the readers that these are biased view۔ BTW I lived your mention to the page to that African language۔
Azmarai76 (talk) 17:05, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please cite your that particular study on the talk page here again. And tell where it mentions Swatis. Sutyarashi (talk) 17:08, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I had done so and guess you can revert everything on your own and that study too۔ please do it and go through MDS Analysis and cluster Analysis۔ Try to make Wikipedia correct source of information instead of removing the references that aren't as you like them۔ Its request that threatening other editor will just make no difference but We will end up making Wikipedia misleading۔ BTW Sutyarashi you are using only one Arlinghaus on other related pages also that doesn't even are suitable for those pages.
Azmarai76 (talk) 17:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2023[edit]

fake information totally brother change it 39.32.159.183 (talk) 13:59, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fake changes[edit]

Before some months everything is fine but now some qasabghar or swat gujjar make changes on our caste their is no ref that we are dardic speker berfore conquer of swat or Afghanistan, we are always speak pashto as our mother language, os kunna war kye kunyano, swatyano na e kohistany jor ku, cha chy da kaar kiry dy dagha pa khaza olagum. 2A00:F28:FF4B:965C:24B4:AC7A:907A:74E1 (talk) 09:48, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2024[edit]

Please clarify that Swatis refer to non Pashtun people who have the surname Swati or claim to be the original inhabitants of swat. In general Swati is used mistakenly for every person from Swat, which is predominately inhabited now by the Yousafzai Pashtuns after they killed or pushed out the local Swati population. 124.170.218.26 (talk) 12:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jamedeus (talk) 18:18, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
sources here
https://www.jatland.com/home/The_Races_of_Afghanistan/Chapter_VII
referencing The Races of Afghanistan By H. W. Bellew, C.S.I.
Published by Thacker Spink And Co. Calcutta.1880. Chapter VII: The Yusufzai
additional sources of the Yousafzai Pashtun tribe conquest of Swat valley from Pashtun History blog
https://pashtunhistory.com/swati-tribe/
Due to lack of education in the area and cultural assimilation, the Swati people of Swat wish to claim Pashtun heritage whereas genetic and historical accounts both show them as Dardic people of origin who used to originally inhabit the area prior to the Yousafzai conquest.
Finally genetic test by Swati person posting theur results on reddit showing affinity to the Dardic origins and minor traces of Pashtun DNA added due to mixing over the centuries, a very different result from the Pashtuns of Swat.
https://www.reddit.com/r/illustrativeDNA/comments/17ts1ps/pashtunized_dard_results_swati_tribe_goga_khel/
Please let me know if this will suffice. 124.170.218.26 (talk) 06:38, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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