Talk:Sybil Shearer

Place of death

It appears the NY Times and the Independent have different places of death. I think that is because the NY Times was talking about where she lived and the Independent actually names where she died. I will look to see if can find more sources but it appears that the correct place of death is Evanston, Illinois. NZFC^(talk) 00:53, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Another source provided also shows place of death as Evanston, Illinois so will update NZFC^(talk) 01:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

why are the red dead links there, can the link [[_]] be removed to turn the text black ? why is place of death in there twice ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.254.21.213 (talk) 01:41, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Red links are there because they are linking to a page that hasn't been created, it is quite common in articles. Read more at WP:REDLINK. Place of death is in two places because that is how it is done, you will see her place of birth is in there twice too. Once in the infobox on the right and once in the actual article itself. NZFC^(talk) 01:49, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Can I do more or will someone come along and revert? As I said on the other page they would like help 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:00, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

50.254.21.213 you can make edits as long as they don't remove content or what you add doesn't have a reliable source. But I welcome any changes you can make. NZFC^(talk) 02:09, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/chicagotribune/obituary.aspx?n=sybil-shearer&pid=15759789 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:29, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

More changes, how to

It's not what you know, it's whether or not a valid citation can be provided. And if someone reverts what you added (or subtracted), come here to Talk to make your case. Also, when you make a change in an article you are not supposed to add four ~ at the end of your Edit summary. That's for when you write stuff in Talk. David notMD (talk) 02:13, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

can the two templates now be removed (Please help improve this section) 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:29, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't remove them at this stage as there is still a lot in those sections unsourced. NZFC^(talk) 02:32, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

can you list 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:33, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

All of the below is unreferenced and requires sources. There maybe more that I have missed from the article. NZFC^(talk) 02:42, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Still needs references

daughter of Constance and John Porter Shearer Her father was a commercial artist After graduating in 1930 from Newark High School In a photo book by John Martin, Shearer is often seen wearing loose-fitting garments or highly theatrical costumes. Combining the technique of ballet and the freedom of modern dance, Shearer used a pointed or flexed foot, long extended limbs, and contorted shapes or straight lines of the body. Shearer was appointed artist-in-residence at the Arnold Theatre of the National College of Education (now National Louis University) located in Evanston, Illinois, in 1962. The school was looking to have an artist of great caliber working close by. Shearer was celebrated by the poet Gary Forrester in "The Beautiful Daughters of Men: A Novella in Short Verse from Tinakori Hill". (The Legal Studies Forum, Volume XXXIII, Supplement No. 2, West Virginia University (2009), ISSN 0894-5993; a journal established by the American Legal Studies Association.

NZ Footballs Conscience, how do you make good faith and Saturday review turn blue ? 50.254.21.213 (talk) 20:37, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

I'll check the edits out later for you. Just one thing, we don't write dates as 2/4/2018 but instead in full as February 4, 2018 too. NZFC^(talk) 22:19, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

NZ Footballs Conscience ? do i need middle name cites ? 50.254.21.213 (talk) 14:38, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Just cite what ever is on the webpage you are referencing. NZFC^(talk) 22:04, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

References

5 is missing any kind of link 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

That is because it is a book, you can see how they are referenced here Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Books NZFC^(talk) 02:17, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

6 is wrong going to the home page not the book page http://www.morrisonshearer.org/httpdocs/pub.html 50.254.21.213 (talk) 03:32, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

you know you're allowed to fix that yourself if you like. NZFC^(talk) 04:11, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

is there a page that describes the right way to format, that is what goes in front of and behind the link ?, i did before you came in that was part of the revert. 50.254.21.213 (talk) 04:22, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Yeah but before you were reverted because you also removed references. You can and back in bits that were fine. For more help referencing, look at Help:Referencing_for_beginners NZFC^(talk) 04:43, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Also we don't use * for new line, we use : and you just need as many : as required to indent your message NZFC^(talk) 04:44, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I guess i mean do i have to put in tags 50.254.21.213 (talk) 04:48, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by tags? NZFC^(talk) 04:52, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

"whatever text, formatting, or templates you put in between these two tags will become visible in the "References" section as the text of your reference". that is before and after www. link 50.254.21.213 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Still not sure what you mean. Just take an example of another reference in the article and update it for the reference you want to add. NZFC^(talk) 05:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

google books, key words - "Sybil Shearer", "maverick", "mystic". 50.254.21.213 (talk) 22:56, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-09-19/entertainment/9309190096_1_sybil-shearer-modern-dance-dance-performance 50.254.21.213 (talk) 02:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

copyright infringement

This article appears to have been copied from this article http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/sybil-shearer-520349.html#commentsDiv and the author was warned by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Georgette.mccallum#Sybil_Shearer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather/Archive23#Sybil_Shearer i do not no, what do you think ? 50.254.21.213 (talk) 01:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi again 50.254.21.213, you don't need to worry about those, they are old and the article has gone through many changes since then. There is some close resemblance to the NY Times article but that is just because of the same use of words but been written differently. There isn't any copyright claim to worry about see here copyvio. NZFC^(talk) 01:07, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

a lot of people have come out of the wood work to edit this after you.50.254.21.213 (talk) 01:15, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

That is good, the more people editing it the better we can hopefully make it and get all those tags removed. NZFC^(talk) 01:19, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

where are all these people coming from is there some kind of live list ? 50.254.21.213 (talk) 01:46, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

They will be coming from your question from the Teahouse where you asked the original question from probably and maybe also from the recent changes list since there has been a few changes being made recently. NZFC^(talk) 01:48, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Sybil_Shearer 50.254.21.213 (talk) 14:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Nationality in lead

Subject WAS born in Canada, but moved to US as infant per article. Usually, we use nationality where subject gained notability. Is there a compelling reason to mention Canadian ethnicity or does the subject possible hold dual citizenship? If this is the case then that would make more sense. Thank you, --Malerooster (talk) 01:26, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

ps, this used to be covered in WP:MOSBIO but now I am not seeing it?? Help anybody? --Malerooster (talk) 01:28, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Malerooster, I couldn't find anything on it either but had a feeling their used to be something. Anyway, I found in her Autobiography that she called herself an American here.

References

NZFC^(talk) 01:32, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi NZ Footballs Conscience, yes I looked to and its not there, go figure :), it used to be, I am sure, since this type of thing can be quite contensious, see Albert Einstein for example. Anyways, going with how the subject self identifies is good or reliable sources for dual citizenship ect are also very helpful. I usually don't change dual nationalities unless the subject came to the country of notability at a very young age, and even then it can get heated. Thank you for finding that source, cheers! --Malerooster (talk) 01:37, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

ps, I would so love to visit New Zealand, but not sure if I can make it happen :) --Malerooster (talk) 01:40, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

I maybe a little biased, but its an awesome place if you can make it here. :) NZFC^(talk) 01:43, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Images

50.254.21.213, I would suggest reading WP:IMAGES. You can't add images to articles by just adding links like you have here and here

what about citing the web site the image is on 1. was showing the sign where her HS stood because the name in the newspapers,

are wrong on the name 2. front cover of the book since the whole thing needs a cite and there is nothing there.50.254.21.213 (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM1PQ3_Newark_High_School

https://www.amazon.com/BEAUTIFUL-DAUGHTERS-MEN-novella-Tinakori/dp/B00382HQ2W 50.254.21.213 (talk) 23:18, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Again I would read the link I gave you, you can't use images that aren't yours as both those appear to be, especially the one from Amazon. Saying that, what I was meaning is the images first have to be uploaded at Wikimedia Commons before you can then add them to this article. NZFC^(talk) 23:28, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Wording and Punctuation

from Nyack ???

? the family moved to Newark, New York in 1924 as Shearers father got a job working for Bloomer Brothers from Nyack ?

? the family moved to Newark, New York in 1924 from Nyack as her father got a job working for Bloomer Brothers ? 50.254.21.213 (talk) 23:39, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

citations

Hi NZ Footballs Conscience no.12 is going to amazon SYBIL SHEARER FOLIO 1 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sybil-Shearer-Folio-John-Martin/dp/B0000EERA6 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000EERA6 you said no amazon links, is book selling site 50.254.21.213 (talk) 00:13, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

That is fine, it was the fact your were using one of their copyright images that you can't do, this is a reference to the book. NZFC^(talk) 00:31, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

do you mean not the picture of the book?

what about John Neumeier, John Martin is linked twice did not see him before. 50.254.21.213 (talk) 00:53, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

The Morrison-Shearer Foundation

The Morrison-Shearer Foundation, established in 1991 and based in Northbrook, Illinois, ,was , established in 1991 and is based at her home in Northbrook, Illinois ,was , established in 1991 and is based in her home in Northbrook, Illinois

preserves the works related to the careers of photographer Helen Balfour Morrison and Shearer.

50.254.21.213 (talk) 21:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

THE FOUNDATION The Morrison-Shearer Foundation was established in 1991 to preserve and exhibit the works and documentary materials relating to the careers of photographer Helen Balfour Morrison and dancer-choreographer Sybil Shearer; to maintain the Home and Studio as a source of inspiration for others.

http://www.morrisonshearer.org/httpdocs/abo.html

50.254.21.213 (talk) 21:27, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

this foundation is just as important as Ronald regains foundation which is an external link on his page.

it is the combination of 2 names Helen Balfour Morrison and Sybil Louise Shearer.

same as 2 www dot facebook.com/morrisonshearer/ that has a depository of her life.

50.254.21.213 (talk) 23:30, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Other users thought that have been brought here by IP

"I will, however, point to WP:ELMINOFFICIAL as a reminder: "More than one official link should be provided only when the additional links provide the reader with significant unique content and are not prominently linked from other official websites. For example, if the main page of the official website for an author contains a link to the author's blog and Twitter feed, then it is not appropriate to provide links to all three. Instead, provide only the main page of the official website in this situation."- The Bushranger 23:00, 14 January 2018 (UTC) It was a content dispute, and ANI is not a place to handle content disputes, especially when the answer is clearly stated in the policies and guidelines, as I quoted." "If you want to include the link on the page, you have to establish a consensus for its inclusion on the article talk page. Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and WP:BRD. - The Bushranger 04:31, 15 January 2018 (UTC)" "Assuming I am understanding your question correctly (which appears conceptual, not based on a specific issue): An official foundation website might be permissable; there are variables involved, so cannot answer in absolutes. Social media pages of non-living persons would only be relevant if it was in use during the person's life, so might be permissable in that scenario, again pending other variables. Any social media pages created after the death of the subject are usually not going to be allowable. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 22:18, 14 January 2018 (UTC)"50.254.21.213 (talk) 06:20, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

• http://www.morrisonshearer.org/ 50.254.21.213 (talk) 00:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

I feel user is wrong here and others appear to agree with me including the person who wrote the above that IP is quoting from Bushranger. The external links weren't either Morrison's or Shearers personal websites and shouldn't be listed. The foundation is referenced in the articles so if people wanted too they are easy enough to find anyway. I note IP is also WP:FORUMSHOP to find others who agree with them NZFC^(talk) 05:24, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

The Morrison-Shearer Foundation has been linked because of an edit war between me and the bot user who took out the link who thinks if there was a page than the link could be used as an external link on that page in stead of the syble page it is inappropriate to do that and should be removed as per non Consensus as an unconstructive edit. Wikipedia:Red_link#Avoiding_creation_of_certain_types_of_red_links 50.254.21.213 (talk) 14:13, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

despite another user adding the wikilink to a possible Morrison-Shearer foundation page and IP reverting it, this isn't what above is really about. IP wants to add the foundation as an external link. When I referred to the foundation as being linked, I mean it has actually been used as a reference in the article so is easy for users to find. I think the red link can stay as per WP:REDDEAL and think the foundation shouldn't be in externals as already discussed. NZFC^(talk) 07:43, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Social Media

• "While I sympathise with the IP's frustration here, the bottom line is that, due to linkspam, IP/new users are not allowed to add social media links to pages, enforced by XLinkBot. As noted, the links of the subject are acceptable, but they have to be placed by an autoconfirmed user. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is, and appealing to WP:OTHERSTUFF doesn't change it. I suspect WP:VPP would be the place to propose either allowing IP users to add social media links, or to ban them altogether; beyond that it's a case of content and that's not something ANI adjuciates. The Bushranger 23:00, 14 January 2018 (UTC)" www dot facebook dot com/morrisonshearer/ 50.254.21.213 (talk) 00:26, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

External links/Perennial websites

(Wikipedia:External_links/Perennial_websites#Facebook,_MySpace)

(Template:Facebook) 50.254.21.213 (talk) 07:39, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Sigh, we normally list 'only one' official external link by a subject. That official link can be an official site (as in a <subject>.com), or when that does not exist, a twitter or a facebook. We also note that for many subjects an official link simply does not exist. I argue for this, that that is here the case. The foundation preserved their work, that is something different than an official website of a subject.

Now, there may be reason to include the foundation link for other reasons. One could consider to link to the foundation with a proper remark ('all <whatever> can be found on the website of the Sybil Shearer foundation', including it as 'information that cannot be included' .. but not on the claim that it is the official website of the subject (though I would still argue that when the Wikipedia page of the foundation is created, it should be removed here and the in-text pointer 'the material is preserved by the Morrison-Shearer Foundation' then sufficiently tells people where to look (basically, as is now, with a redlink foundation link).

The facebook, not being the official facebook of the subject (again, it is of the foundation, or better of the people who maintain the foundation) and the most prominent outlet of the subject simply fails any reason to include it - it does not give sufficient extra information to warrant inclusion (something that social networking sites, barring rare examples, generally completely fail to do).

The appeal to WP:OTHERSTUFF indeed does not hold - as I explained to the IP, I agree with the IP that the link does not belong on Ronald Reagan as an official website of the subject either (though also there maybe it could be included in another form), and on Chelsea Manning I removed one social networking site to reduce the list to the 'only one official website' (which in this case happens to be only a social networking site (a twitter)). If you want to reduce your WP:OTHERSTUFF comment to the absurd - Tree does not have an official website listed (in fact, it does not have any external link listed, and a lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links).

Regarding User:The Bushranger's comment - social media is discouraged as external links, and per our 'only one' inclusion of official sites of a subject in the far majority fails our inclusion standards. In practically all cases where social networking link is added next to a <subject>.com it fails inclusion, as do many next to the other social networking sites (we enlist one only to show what a subject says about themselves, with respect to 'encyclopedic' information none of the social networking sites delivers that barring some very rare exceptions). I remove many of them from many pages where they are listed, reducing official sites to only one (and I am only aware of maybe a handful of pages where the second listing is warranted on the thousands of pages I have already cleaned up in the past). Hence, they are not banned altogether, but they are very often not suitable as external links. To remind editors of that, XLinkBot is set up to revert the social networking sites when they are added. In those (rather rare) cases where the social networking site is acceptable they can be reverted back in. This page is a very good case where the link should not be included and where the bot is reminding editors of that. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 14:03, 15 January 2018 (UTC)