Talk:T-rules

I had never heard of the T-rules (so I won't edit anything), but I am native speaker of Dutch. A lot of information in this article is not (entirely) correct or archaic. Few examples:

>"In general the pronoun jij/je never makes the verb end on a -t. The only way that this pronoun can make a verb end on a -t, is if it proceeds the verb while the tense is the simple present or present perfect tense, the mood is the indicative mood and the verb is not a modal." Technically speaking, this is true. However, these conditions occur so often that it's simply wrong to say that it never happens in general. Every present tense sentence that is in the "standard" word order makes the verb end on a -t: jij slaapt, jij loopt, jij werkt, etc... And this occurs extremely often.

>"Je kan naar school gaan." Is informal. "Je kunt naar school gaan." would be much better. (note the extra -t)

>"There is one exception: if the radical of the verb ends on a -t, the jij-form also ends on a -t

Jij rust. (You rest) " Nope, just the opposite. The extra -t is more or less standard (at least to the extend I mentioned above), however if the radical already ends with a t, the EXTRA -t will NOT be added. (mainly for pronounciation purposes)

About the gij/ge rules: Most examples mentioned are archaic and almost never used today. About half of them is old-Dutch and nowadays simply wrong in standard Dutch: Ge zoudt, Werkte(t) ge, Zijde gij, Ziede gij, etc. These do (often) appear in southern dialects, but are nevertheless wrong in standard Dutch. A general rule for modern standard Dutch is: Although gij/ge has different rules than jij/je, it is nearly always fine to use de jij/je rules for gij/ge.

Not in belgium, it is 'standaardtaal in Belgie' as declared by taalunie!, so completely correct, but maybe a notes needs to be added. 212.64.56.124 14:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

>"The rules for the third person and the pronoun u are the same: they only get a -t in the simple present and present perfect tense of the indicative, if the verb is not a modal." More or less true. However, different rules apply on several irregular verbs like zijn (to be) or (sometimes) hebben (to have), even when they are NOT used as a modal. Ex: Hij is klein (He is small); U bent klein (You are small).

>"The first person singular never ends on a -t, only if the verb-radical ends on a -t." Way to complicated. The first person singular never gets an extra letter. Period. If the last letter of the radical happens to be a T, so be it.

>"For the verbs houden, rijden and their compositions, the d of the radical is also dropped." Not nessicarily (although often preferred), but this has nothing to do with de T-thing.

Again, I had never heard of this rules (so I won't edit it myself), but i suggest that this article needs a big time cleanup by a native speaker who knows these rules. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.171.190.164 (talk) 01:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

yeah the entire thing is obviously written by someone from belgium. all the stuff abotu "gij" and "ge" is only used in belgium, or it is extremely old dutch. also no dutch person would ever translate "gij" to you, but only to thou. this article should be appropriately tagged or something· Lygophile has spoken 05:54, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You say it like that's a bad thing. But anyway, the 'gij' en 'ge' parts don't really belong here, because 'gij' is almost exclusively used in spoken language, and rarely in text. Grammar rules surrounding it are not really part of standard Dutch anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.245.217.3 (talk) 12:36, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

???[edit]

I have never heard of these rules, probably because they are not complex enough. For example, the line that tries to explain when "jij" has a 't' distinguishes between past and present. The 't' rule for "ik" however, says nothing of past and present. I was thinking of 'kopen' -> 'kochten'.

My question:..where is this used? Mallerd (talk) 08:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indicated archaic, formal and informal usage[edit]

I indicated archaic, formal and informal states of the pronouns to indicate their usage.

The fact some people never heard of these rules (see above comments) says nothing about the validity of these rules. Assuming the author of this article is Belgian, it's probably due to a difference in teaching methods between the Netherlands and Belgium that confusion arises. In the Netherlands, the rules are known as d/t-rules, of which stam+t (add t to the stem of the verb for 2nd perso singular in present tense) is one. Endcourts (talk) 01:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]