Talk:TVXQ/Archive 2

Regarding romanization of the members' names and other random stuff

I've noticed that people have been changing the romanization of the group members' names recently: Jaejoong has been changed to Jaejung and Yoochun to Yuchun. In the past, Junsu's name has been changed to Junsoo, as well. While the Korean spelling of the names varies because there's no direct English sound for the Korean sounds, the spelling of the names should still be kept consistent throughout this article - which means choosing ONE spelling for each name and sticking with it. The article has always used Junsu, Yoochun, Jaejoong, Changmin, and Yunho, so people are probably most used to seeing that; yet I've never actually seen Jaejoong, Yoochun, or Junsu spelled out using the English alphabet in official Korean sources. The closest there is to the "official" English spelling of their names comes from the Japanese sources, which list Jaejoong as Jejung and Yoochun as Yuchun. At the same time, though, most fansites and forums - most notably soompi - use Jaejoong and Yoochun as the actual English spelling of the names. What do you all think about the naming issue? Can anyone find a source for Jaejoong's, Yoochun's, and Junsu's Korean names actually being spelled in this way? Should we switch to the Japanese naming convention (sources include interviews and the Verite campaign)? Other thoughts?

Also, there seems to be a little bit of conflict over the use of Jaejoong's birth name in the article; although Jaejoong has clearly stated that he wishes to live by... well... Jaejoong, and not Jaejoon, that information is still available to the public and is discussed in-depth later in the article. Putting his name as being just "Jaejoong" may be a little... misleading? (Wrong word but I can't think of a better one right now). So my question is - why should/shouldn't it be kept in the article?

Returning to the discussion about member solos: The definition of a solo work for this article is a major piece done by a member by/for himself or with others artists outside of a group setting, i.e. not involving the rest of TVXQ and not performed exclusively at a concert. Therefore, Junsu's "White Lie", Yoochun's "Holding back the tears", Yoochun's and Changmin's "Evergreen", and Yoochun's and Jaejoong's "When we last kissed, goodbye" should technically not be placed in the solo section. Other works, such as Junsu's "My Page" and Yunho's "Spokesman" are under a questionable category because they were written by TVXQ members as solos, but performed at group concerts and are part of CDs. That said, I believe the pieces are of note and should not be removed, because TVXQ's talented they're notable achievements made by each of the members. The way I see it, though, we can't keep the pieces under the solo section. Instead, we could: 1 - Create a new section for trivia (because it doesn't fit under solo work); 2 - Add a comment on the single/album page each time there's a TVXQ-composed song (the other option is to comment on the actual page, which I believe was done with "Kiss..." and "Evergreen"); 3 - Re-title the section as "Other works" and just specify what it is (similar to what's in place now, except that the section's titled "Member Solo Activities"). So... yeah. Comments? Questions? More options?

-rairakku (talk) 06:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

For romanization, go for the most frequent. If that's ambiguous, then go for the "official". I'm pretty sure the ones in the article are the ones that SM goes by, anyway. As for Jaejoong, that's his stage name, and that's the name that should be referred to in the article, but I also think that it warrants mention (and it is, in the custody battle section). Finally, I have repeatedly stated my views on solo work. That's all. :P SKS2K6 (talk) 16:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Romanization: apparently fans got the passports of the group members and details of their rooms at the hotel they stayed in during the Shanghai SM concert. The "official" romanizations, according to the check-in information and passports, are "Kim Jun Soo", "Park Yu Chun", "Kim Jae Jung", "Shim Chang Min", and "Chung Yun Ho". But... seeing as how the majority of the fans go by the names given in this article... I think we'll just stick with that.

Jaejoong: I'll remove the tag telling people not to add in "Jaejoon", then.

Solo work: ... i suppose i'll go hunt people down for more input...- rairakku(talk to me) 06:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Member bio page?

I think someone has asked about this before but I can't remember who. Is there a way to add individual bio articles for each member? Or is it necessary? I would like to help with making the articles for each member and even add a picture for them but I'm new at making articles so could someone help out please? Thanks!

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 18:32, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

The discussion about individual member pages is sort of here. Basically, the members have not done enough outside of the group to have their own pages on Wikipedia, so we're keeping the profiles as part of the TVXQ article. - rairakku(talk to me) 19:10, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok. Thanks for the info, Mitsuki. :D

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 02:03, 3 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

No problem, and welcome to Wikipedia! - rairakku(talk to me) 21:43, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome! :D

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 23:54, 3 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

Where can this go in the article?

I kinda summarized all what TVXQ did concerning their albums and how long they've been around in the business. Could someone help me figure out how to add it to the article without messing it up? This would probably go under TVXQ Discography though but still please let me know what I should do.

DBSK have been in the music business since 2003 (5 yrs.). They have 4 Korean albums and 1 Korean Christmas album, including 6 Korean singles albums. They have 3 Japanese albums, including 24 Japanese singles albums. They have a Japanese and English version of HUG, including 8 of their Korean songs in Mandarin Chinese.

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 20:53, 9 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

hmm... the problem is that the group keeps releasing new stuff. their 25th japanese single is apparently coming out soon. But if you want to, you could probably stick it into the discography section - just rephrase it a little: use "TVXQ" or "The group" instead of DBSK, the "5 yrs" part can be removed (because it changes every year right? :D), and "they have released 4 Korean albums, 1 Korean Christmas album, and 6 Korean singles" (I believe the singles are counted separately from the albums, not included in them), and "they have released 3 Japanese albums and 24 Japanese singles." Also, "Hug" has been released in four languages - Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and English (international version?).

Just a side comment - what are the titles of the Mandarin songs? We could probably use that and say something like "there was a Chinese-language release of Tri-angle and O-Jung.Ban.Hap., with these ____ songs sung in Mandarin." - rairakku(talk to me) 21:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

True. Sure I can do that. Sadly, I don't have info on the Mandarin songs at this time. When I do I'll let you know. Thanks! :D

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 15:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

Other incidents?

I found out recently that there have been 2 other incidents. 1 was the car accident (I can't remember when though) and the other was the DUI incident that Jaejoong was involved in. Does anyone have anymore info on that and can we include that under controversies?

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 03:47, 12 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

The DUI incident was in the article a while ago, but taken out for some reason (probably sometime last year, i think). Car accidents - the group's been in quite a few, if i remember correctly. The most major one was when yunho injured his neck, but there have been many others besides that. It's not exactly... uncommon. - rairakku(talk to me) 21:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok. Just curious. Thanks for the info! :D

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 00:12, 13 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

Shows?

Sorry for spamming the talk section like this, but I have many questions.

Should we include all the shows TVXQ starred on like the game shows, variety shows, and talk shows? Obviously, we can't keep track of all of them but for the ones we can remember, can we list them somewhere in the article? Please let me know. Thanks.

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 13:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

It's trivial. Generally, we avoid trivia (see WP:TRIVIA). Only the ones that are based around them, or the ones where they hosted, should be included. For example, if the group had a reality show based around their activities in Japan, or if Yunho was hosting Inki Gayo for like a year, or whatever, then sure. But not one-off appearances on Yashimmanman, Family Outing, Happy Together, etc. SKS2K6 (talk) 17:34, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok. Thanks for the info! :D

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 00:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

Long and messy article

I was going through the entire article and I realized that the history section of the article goes on for quite a while. There's also lot of information that is already present on the discography page, such as release dates of singles and chart positions, that's repeated in the history section. Instead of providing a detailed commentary on all of the group's activities, the section could summarize everything that was done in the year.

For example, rhe paragraph in the 2007 section -

'The single "Choosey Lover" was released on March 7th, [21] followed by "Lovin' You" which debuted at #2 on the Oricon charts in June, their first single to reach such a position in Japan. Closely following its success, the bubblegum pop tunes of "Summer Dream" became TVXQ's most successful Japanese single in 2007, debuting at #1 [22] and with sales of 112,771 copies in a week. Their double A-side single "SHINE / Ride On" debuted at #2 on the Oricon daily charts in October. Japanese singer Koda Kumi collaborated with TVXQ for her 38th single "Last Angel", which was released November 7th and ranked #3 on debut; the song was featured in the movie Resident Evil: Extinction. The collaboration with Koda Kumi aided TVXQ in raising recognition among teenage males (58.0%) and men in their 30s (62.0%) of the group, which could grow to be a new fan base for the group[23]. In the same month, their 14th Japanese single "FOREVER LOVE" also debuted at #3. In December, the title song single "Together" for the "Cinnamon" animation movie debuted at #2.'

can be summarized into something like -

'The group released seven singles in Japan for 2007: "Step by Step", "Choosey Lover", "Lovin' You", "Summer ~Summer Dream/Song for you/Love in the Ice~" (their best-selling single to date), "Shine/Ride On", "Forever Love", and "Together". In addition, Japanese singer Koda Kumi collaborated with the group for her 38th single Last Angel, featured in the movie Resident Evil: Extinction. The collaboration with Koda Kumi aided TVXQ in raising recognition among teenage males (58.0%) and men in their 30s (62.0%) of the group, which could grow to be a new fan base for the group'

Similarly, some the information in the 2008 section (which is long) could also be cut out by summarizing the group's activities - most of the Mirotic-related news could be placed on the album page and details about the singles (purple line, beautiful you, kimisuki) moved to the singles' respective pages (if not already there).

Agree? Disagree? Additional comments? Other ideas? - rairakku(talk to me) 20:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It takes forever to read. Go ahead and put all the album and singles info on the respective pages and try to summarize each section as best as you can. That's all I can think of for now though. Hope that helps. ^^

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 01:04, 3 December 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

Controversy with the Chinese ladies

OK, there are sources for that now. My Chinese isn't great, though, so I only caught the gist of the written articles (although I got most of the video). It seems like the video from 6.cn was slightly different from the CRI news article (I think the news anchor's comment at the end of the video ruined it for me -_-). Also, I couldn't stay on the liao1 site to verify what type of site it was because viruses kept popping up. It looked similar to what the news video said, though.

So now the question is how to write that section. Here's what I know according to the video (please correct me if I'm wrong):

1 - Part of the incident happened in the bathroom. Changmin went into a women's restroom under the impression that the men's restroom was broken. He ran into a lady there. Not sure whether or not she was a fan, though she probably was. And she was pregnant?

2 - Something with a cell phone. He thought she was taking pictures so there was a fight or something involving one of the bodyguards, and the lady fell in the process. Also she yelled at him sometime during all of this.

3 - She and another lady followed the guys to the airport, where Changmin was called "crazy" or "neurotic" (or however it's translated =_=) and told to die. or something like that.

and the video ends there (I won't comment on reporter's comments).

Not much of the chaotic stuff from the CRI article is covered in the news video, so I'm not completely sure what happened with the guys' luggage and the lady's purse. All I gathered was that the ladies followed the guys to the airport and caused chaos there. And Changmin got attacked by her purse. And there was some apology. And the Chinese media's all over this, although the Korean media doesn't seem to care.

As for the tudou video, I didn't really see anything in there similar to what the CRI article mentioned, although I did hear the part with the lady screaming at Changmin.

Also for those who are interested, the sites used as reference -

http://news.liao1.com/newspage/2008/12/4093548.html

http://gb.cri.cn/19064/2008/12/02/108s2345142.htm

http://6.cn/watch/10730948.html

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/y0qorv6oNJA/ <- I don't think this should be used as reference in the article, though, because it's redundant.

- rairakku(talk to me) 19:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

As long as it's cited and from a legit source...I don't see a problem with it being in the article. It should be too long, though, as it really doesn't appear to be that significant. SKS2K6 (talk) 19:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

My point of view

First of all, I'm new here, and I don't know how to talk with you here, so pardon me for that :-) Maybe the former words are misled due to my anger and wrong messages, I'm sorry for that. Thank you for your patience and tolerance, but there's still some reasons why I'd like to post it here. 1— In China, if a man went to a ladies room, the action will be regarded as sexual squall. And the woman is permitted to get him out of the ladies room by means of words or actions. I don't know whether it is permitted for a man to go to ladies room without notice by law.

2— After research, I found the lady who beat MAX, her name is tan yu jing(谈玉晶), a editor of the magazine "the tornado of Korea" (<<韩流飓风>>). Her name, ID, bank saving ID, and other resources are found by millions of net worms in China(this is called "人肉搜索", developed recently. believe in its power,it has never made any mistakes since it was born). I admit that the lady isn't a pregnant, as is reported. She is also a fan of TVXQ.

3— The net violence in China is obviously true. You can see at BaiDu TieBa. A place for us to shout out our anger.

http://tieba.baidu.com/f?ct=&tn=&rn=&pn=&lm=&sc=&kw=wow&rs2=0&myselectvalue=1&word=wow&submit=%B0%D9%B6%C8%D2%BB%CF%C2&tb=on (it is a shame of us Chinese to say rude words, but you can see our anger through that since we never say rude words so much like that)

4— It is true that neither MS nor TVXQ has respond to the incident since then.But why?

-) Maybe I will have to change my words to meet the latest news. But still I will say the truth to contribute to the fact. If there's any problems or any questions, please send me an email( longlifejuba@126.com ) to discuss that.I respect your effort in writing this page, as well do I understand your feeling when your idol was harmed(If you edit something in Islamic Army in Iraq or Baghdad Sniper page, I will also be angry :-) ).

You know, the TVXQ on wikipedia Chinese block has been locked. I don't wish this page is locked due to our controversy. Thank you. This is my blog, the pictures below recorded the net violence in China. http://blog.cnwest.com/index.php?uid-62077-action-viewspace-itemid-53318 Fallujasurvivor (talk) 04:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Falluja survivor

Ah, sorry about the rude welcome. The section that you originally posted was hidden by me as I tried to get people to join in the discussion page. I've shown it again since there are sources now. We can add in other information as it relates to the controversy, as long as it's with a source.

As a response to your points:

1 - I didn't realize that a man entering a female restroom would be such a big deal in China (then again, I've been out of Chinese society for too long). It'd be weird to put that statement directly in the article, though. Perhaps a footnote would be better?

2 - I'm not sure if we can put in so much information about the magazine editor (I'll look at Wikipedia policy later for that). And are the "net worms" viruses of some sort? Or netizens?

3 - Hence the term "jihad", huh. I'll leave the term in the article for now, but it's a little controversial in itself.

4 - As SKS2K6 mentioned above, I think it's considered a minor event among Korean fans. Also, it's possible that SM and TVXQ don't see any fault in their actions. Question about the bathroom incident - did Changmin go into the women's bathroom while it was empty? As in - was the bathroom closed off to other people so that he could go in? The news sites don't say much about this, but I don't know how to search for more details (and it would take me too long to read, anyway). It makes perfect sense for the woman to behave as she did if he went into the bathroom while it was in "normal" use. However, some of the English sites say nothing about him entering a women's room. Just a bathroom.

About your blog - I don't really have time right now to read through all of the screencaps and pictures, but I'll be able to take a look at or tomorrow. Or...a summary might be helpful, too... because it'll take me hours to get through that stuff :/

Oh and finally, welcome to the English Wikipedia! I hope that the previous responses to your edits didn't throw you off. - rairakku(talk to me) 06:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, it's my first time to edit a page on Wikipedia. So I might have violate some rules here.

First of all, I should apologize for the word "jihad". You know, the official translation of "圣战" in China is "jihad". I might say that in another way like "holy war" or "battle for respect". Jihad might will remind you of the conflicts with Arabic world. Secondly, the word "net worms" should be replaced by "netizens".

Nor do I know how to find more details about the "bathroom" or "women's room". I thought it a better way to keep it under discussion. At first I thought it was deleted by the crazy Chinese fans, but now I suppose I have added my personal attitude into the words on a large scale. Anyway, I was bitterly angry about the HUMAN RIGHTS of Chinese in a world where almost every product is made in China. And so it is with other angry netizens. It is not the Korean's rights invaded, so there's little response there. Anyhow, I will try to keep a neutral attitude toward the incident.

And I will try to write a neutral report about the incident in English this weekend if I could find enough details.

I found it nice talking on Wikipedia. Thank you.

By the way, there's a few notes that might help you to read the Chinese web pages.

"仙后"=Cassiopeia; "亲" or "亲们" is the word Cassiopeia call each other.

"仙猴"is the nickname of Cassiopeia given by the angry Chinese, since Koreans announce that they are the ancestor of all human beings.

"东方勃起" or "洞房神起" or "洞房神器" are also the nickname given by the angry netizens, you know the word "东方神起" is now forbidden by Baidu to prevent netizens from posting too much texts there.

"卧槽泥马" has the same sound with "我操你妈", which means "fuck your mother".(sorry for the rude words)

"韩度" is the nick name of the website "百度", since there's a rumor that the website is supported by Korea.

"周恩来" is the first premier of PR China, and he is highly respected next to Chairman Mao.Here is an introduction about him in English. http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/23917288.html?si=1

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fallujasurvivor (talk • contribs) 15:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey I have a question. I thought the incident was near the escalator? What's all this about a bathroom?

I thought she hit him with her bag and cussed him out while he and the others were on the way to the escalator. Then said something about I hope you and your family dies or something like that. I'm not sure who she was referring to when she said family though. I don't know if she meant his real family or DBSK (which they are kinda like family to each other).

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz8Qrtzd4Rc http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=AZY5zCyLBdQ http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=e-nE0crTtLY http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=oFeeT3Dv1wQ

The same witch spread some rumours about him as well.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=VRvy-Wg4wzM

Click on the links for more info.

Anyway, please help me out cuz I don't know what to do! T.T

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 12:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

According to the Chinese news sites, the incident originated a restroom in the airport. Afterward, the two women followed TVXQ and cursed them as they were going through the airport (I guess that's the escalator thing). I'll try to find the most updated news sources about the women, since one of the sources I saw seems to be wrong about the woman's pregnancy. - rairakku(talk to me) 06:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok. Thanks for the info! :D

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 17:26, 6 December 2008 (UTC) Hajiru

Hello, I am new here so I do not know if I am doing this right but I just wanted to say that this part of the article seems horribly biased towards the Chinese lady. I think more details should be added. Also, I think people like myself who do not read, write, or speak Chinese should have access to the sources behind the story. The only reason I have a problem with it is because it is not the same story that Chinese Cass and other fans who were there at the airport are telling on Soompi, Youtube and other forums. One of the girls said that her sister is friends with the alleged attacker and that she followed Jaejoong and Changmin into the men's room to get an autograph. At first it was believed that she was a Chinese fan of Jaejoong but that turned out to be false info. Anyways, Jaejoong was upset so Changmin scolded the girl and her friend, telling them to please leave. Their guard got involved and reportedly pushed one of the girls on the floor. Her and her friend cursed at them in English. Then they proceeded to follow the group through the terminal and curse Changmin in Chinese saying that he nor his family would rest in peace. Then the main girl was said to have hit Changmin with one of her luggage bags near the escalator. Chinese Cass reportedly asked for the girl's flight information and planned to meet her on the trip back. I have heard this same story like 100 times from people who were there. I'm not saying this story is better but I think the entire controversy doesn't have enough solid sources to be added to an article that people all over the world can read especially if it is proven incorrect. I am an American fan and feel like the whole thing is too confusing. My friends feel the same way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pammiej85 (talk • contribs) 02:28, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I also feel that this story is heavily biased towards one side's point of view. If we are going to keep this controversial paragraph in the article, it is only fair to present the other side of the story, otherwise this section will create further hostility and future controversies for years to come (especially for new fans or interested parties searching up about the band). I find that the media sources presented themselves do not have any legitimate sources to base their news on. They all seem to be hearsay. Was their any official police reporting on this incident? Any airport security personnel interviewed? No. Celebrity entertainment news alone cannot be trusted, even in Korea (or anywhere else for that matter). Especially if its based on gossip and 'personal accounts' on the internet. I think this paragraph should be removed because there is no firm basis on how factual these news accounts are. (I am going to remove it from the front page until the matter is resolved here)

Darkmedival (talk) 03:43, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

The problem with the section having a Chinese bias is that there are few - if any - Korean sources of the incident. I've been on soompi, fangirlmitz, and random kpop news sites (like allkpop) and read the same account that Pammiej85 gave - and I agree with that version more than the Chinese news sites' version of events. However, due to the absence of legitimate sources that disagreed with the accounts given, the section was kept in the article and put back in every time it was removed. For those who want an English translation of all the Chinese news stories: [1]

The site explains everything that has happened in regard to the incident from the Chinese perspective, as well as netizen reactions to the event (which... is not actually related to the article but interesting nevertheless)

If anyone can find a Korean source that disagrees with the Chinese account, it should definitely be added in. Otherwise, we could note the Chinese bias while leaving the section in because no matter how you look at it, the section contains sources that adhere to Wikipedia's policy.

Also... despite the clear bias... CRI (one of the sources used in the article) is a state-owned, national radio broadcasting network... so it doesn't cover just celebrity entertainment news. I believe CRI covered the incident due to the overwhelming netizen response to it. - rairakku(talk to me) 06:50, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Jaejoong's DUI Incident

Why is there no information on Jaejoong's early 2006 driving-under-influence incident on the Controversies part of the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.212.45.130 (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure why there isn't any info on it. You may have to ask one of the editors here on the talk page about it.

~Garfield Turtle Anime~ (talk) 01:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC) Hajiru

It's stated here that DBSK is the recipient of MKMF 2005's artist of the year... isn't Kim Jong Kook the one who won the award? It's says so in KJK's wiki entry.. can anyone get the facts straight? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.212.45.130 (talk) 23:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Member solo activities

i have a question . What are the standards to distinguish a solo work from a non-solo work ? I think that we shouldn't think too complicatedly about it ,or else we will be inconsistent with the standards which we set .

For example : somebody wrote that "Max wrote the lyrics for "Evergreen" in SM Town 2007 album"

• after that I added :" Micky composed "Evergreen" ( 2007 SMtown Winter album )" , and somebody deleted it later.
• The reason is ?

I reverted all the edits you made because you disregarded the hidden notes. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 18:36, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Another example : somebody wrote that "Hero sang "Insa" which was featured on the A Millionaire's First Love soundtrack."

• when I added :"Micky sang All In Vain ( Air City OST )" , somebody also deleted it .
• The reason is ?

According to this all the members sang the song, Micky just sang lead. If it was just him then it would be counted as solo work. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 18:36, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And I think composition and writing lyrics should be considered as solo works although they're involved in DBSK's work or not . If you guys don't agree , please make a new section for things that you don't consider as solo works or add those ones in somewhere that everyone can see them . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciarain (talk • contribs) 09:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Solo work shouldn't include writing and composition credits. The former and latter can be added onto each album and songs individual page (i.e. Micky wrote Kiss the Baby Sky and Jaejoong wrote and composed Wasurenaide; put it on the Bolero/Kiss the Baby Sky/Wasurenaide page). (Moon) and (Sunrise) 18:36, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

the boys japanese solo work isn't included. for example changmin wrote and composed 'Wild Soul' and it was only him that sang it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.82.69.240 (talk) 19:48, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

That was for a group project. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 21:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Some questions for clarification

As requested by Moon-Sunrise, I'm doing a copyedit of the page. There are a few things which I have questions on:

Under what label did TVXQ debut in Japan? Avex is mentioned later on, but if it's Avex, it should be mentioned in the section that talks about their debut single in Japan.

Is their single "Jung.Ban.Hap" in any way inspired by Hegel's theory of thesis+antithesis=synthesis? (If it is, the translation might be wikilinked to Hegel or something. That would be pretty cool, haha.)

Is it "Jesus, Joy of Man's Desiring" or "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring"? I know the original title is in German, but if they sang the English version, then it should be "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" (I think). If they sang it in Korean, then maybe it should read "a Korean rendition of 'Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben'".

Another question, why is "Jung.Ban.Hap"'s Japanese name use the same kanji/hanja, but the title is translated "Responsibility-Anti-Five"? Ink Runner (talk) 04:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Ink Runner (talk) 21:22, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

1) Their label is Rhythm Zone.

2) According to this translated article it is inspired by it. Look under Children group is not a skill?, 3rd paragraph. Here's the original link if you want to use it as a ref. http://sports.hankooki.com/lpage/music/200610/sp2006101007014758550.htm

3) I have no clue.

4) More than I do. I used my Japanese-English dictionary looked up Sei and found fault, responsibility. But looking over I see life. According to the dictionary Han is still anti and as for gō I really couldn't find the meaning for it off/online, so I just put five. I guess it could be removed until someone who is fluent in Japanese can translate it. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 05:16, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

About the title for "O" jung ban hap - the Japanese translation is basically sei - "justice/righteousness", han - "anti" - or in this case, whatever is the opposite of righteousness, go - "join(ing)".

nvm. didn't see the article before i wrote that. i think ink runner's translation gets the idea across. - rairakku(talk to me) 06:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Cyanoacrylate drink incident

Is there an actual source that states he drank super glue? The sources I find and the ones given say strong or foreign adhesive... English is preferred. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 16:15, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Jaejoong's birthday

Lately, there have been a lot of people editing Jae's "real" birthdate. I've check online, but the only source I could find to back up the February 4th date is from here http://dbsker.blogspot.com/2009/02/info-blog-posts-by-jaejoongs-mom-and_07.html It's a little problematic since dbsker itself is a blog and it's translated from what's supposed to be Jaejoong's mother's blog, so neither of those is supposed to be used as a source. But if anyone can find - and prove - that his mom's blog exists and the entry that states that Jaejoong's birthday is 2/4/1986, could it be added to the article? - rairakku(talk to me) 16:57, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I suppose it could, if it was proven to be true. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 17:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Good news - found the blog (http://blog.daum.net/jj0204). Bad news - I can't read Korean so I have no way to verify the owner of the blog (although..... based on the photographs, the woman "exists"). And I have yet to find the entry about Jaejoong's birthday (again, due to issues with Korean). I'll just... keep exploring.... - rairakku(talk to me) 07:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Members

Why is Micky the only one with sources? Can anyone find sources for the other members, reliable sources? I'll try to find some on my own, but if none can be found then they would have to be removed because it will be considered as original research. (Moon) and (Sunrise) 20:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the other members, but Junsu mentions a little bit about his childhood in an interview (it's on youtube somewhere) describing the hardships he had to go through - being trained at a young age, voice changing at puberty, having to wait until it stabilized to debut, etc. There are also clips of his SM audition with Kangta's commentary on youtube. Could those be used as sources? - rairakku(talk to me) 07:11, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Vacation OST

Thanks for whoever updated on their drama series. But is anyone going to add Vacation OST to their albums? It would belong under 'other' right? I mean it is a Korean album but I think it would go under other since it's an OST. I would but I don't know how to. (Maira)

_Edit. Forget it. I used common sense and finally figured it out. I hope the picture isn't too big. xD

Another question

(I don't read Korean so) who came up with the tentative names for the group? If it's known who came up with the names, then maybe the sentence could be rephrased as "Before the group's debut, [their label/their family members/their pets] suggested O Jang Yukbu (오장육부 lit. The Five Visceras), Jeonseoleul Meokgo Saneun Golae (전설을 먹고 사는 고래 lit. A Whale That Eats Legends), and Dong Bang Bul Pae (동방불패, the Korean title of Ashes of Time)." Ink Runner (talk) 05:47, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

According to SKS2K6, the article doesn't mention who came up with the names, just that there were tentative names for the group. - rairakku(talk to me) 05:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Ink Runner (talk) 05:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

TVXQ? I think TFXQ is more correct...

I've seen "方" romanized as Fang more then Vfang... I'm not that great with Chinese, so could someone tell me which romanization system this is using? moocowsrule^{talk to moo} 04:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Although I don't know the MoS for Chinese (if there is one). I know in WP:MOS-JP the official romanization goes, but this isn't exactly Japanese...

In the romanization system my dictionaries use, 東方神起 is romanized as "Dong Fang Shen Qi"... but there are diacritics there. moocowsrule^{talk to moo} 04:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

According to wiktionary, it's "Dōng Fāng Shēn Qǐ" in Mandarin. moocowsrule^{talk to moo} 04:33, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Since Wikipedia:Naming conventions doesn't have anything to say on the matter, there are no Manual of Styles for Korean/Chinese, and TVXQ is active in Japan, then the MoS-Jp should probably be followed. Ink Runner (talk) 04:45, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

TVXQ is their name no matter what the romanization of 東方神起 is. Look at the English news articles and their Korean website, there is a "From TVXQ!" link there. If you switch it to the "Balloons" version of the site, it says "TVXQ! The Third Album". Moon and Sunrise 05:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ink Runner there is a Manual of Style for Korean articles. And they don't really fall the Japanese MOS, since they aren't from Japan. The only thing is that their songs/albums have to follow it because it was released on Japan and sung in the language. They are apart of this, since it deals with foreign acts... Moon and Sunrise 05:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. So many guidelines on WP. @_@ Ink Runner (talk) 20:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

There should be an MoS for China... The really don't fall under MoS-JP, since they're Korean, so they probably fall under the Korean MoS... moocowsrule^{talk to moo} 05:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Member profiles

I'm fine with removal of how each member joined, as it isn't cited anyway, but I'm going to have to disagree with what 206.40.103.101 said about removing the member profiles. Most of the musical groups with lengthy pages do profile the members, either as part of the article or in separate solo pages. Coldplay, the example given by the above editor, has solo pages for each member. In addition, the members of TVXQ have different names in different countries (e.g. Jaejoong is Youngwoong in Japan, Jejung in Japan, and Hero in China); the profile box was particularly useful for me when I first found out about the group, as the members' introductions and the TV show/news/performance introductions varied. Also, TVXQ is an idol group; unlike more "musically-inclined" groups, it's supposed to be appealing not just for its music, but also because of each group member's personalities (and the article discusses the member's contributions to their music in the lyrics/composition section, as well as the solo section; it's helpful to know who it's talking about). I'm adding the member profile box back in, since it really was useful. But if anyone opposes it, feel free to discuss/take it out after discussion. - rairakku(talk to me) 01:09, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Technically Hero is "Jejun" and "Yun'ūn" in Japan... moocowsrule^{talk to moo} 06:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

well, his name's officially written as "Jejung" (the t and kimisuki album covers both say "東方神起 are Junsu, Yuchun, Jejung, Changmin, Yunho").... but that's getting off topic. I still think the profile box should be kept because it shows the guys' different names in the different countries they're active in.... - rairakku(talk to me) 19:15, 22 February 2009 (UTC)