Talk:Tetris (Atari Games)/Archive 1
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Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was PAGE WAS MOVED: [1] by User:Jesse Viviano as "Housekeeping page move". Discussion below seems to reflect consensus consistent with that move. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Tetяis: The Soviet Mind Game → Tetris: The Soviet Mind Game — MOS:TM states that "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment". — Mika1h (talk) 19:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Survey
- Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with
*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
OpposeRadical application of MOS (which is still just a guideline). The faux-cyrillic "я" is in the official, original name and is perfectly understood by any reader. We got the redirect, thus I see no problem with the current title. Húsönd 20:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)- Comment - saying that something is "just a guideline" is really not an argument for or against anything. Neither is "official name," per hundreds of precedent cases, indicating a broad-based consensus. Will a blind reader using a reading program hear the title correctly? Accessibility trumps cute formatting, 10 times out of 10. Again, what about a reader who learned English after growing up with the Cyrillic alphabet? The most obvious pronunciation to them will be "Tet-ya-is". -GTBacchus(talk) 22:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- This is not a matter of "cute formatting", although I acknowledge the soundness of your argument about accessibility. However, this is more of a problem for accessibility software to resolve than for Wikipedia. There will always be a few rare cases where accessibility will unfortunately have to be trumped, such as when a visual factor is essential to provide maximum accuracy. Your Cyrillic-reader argument is a personal supposition that can be much disputed. Personally, I think that a user whose primary alphabet is Cyrillic would be as confused about this title as a user with the Latin alphabet as primary. I much reckon that for any user it would look obvious that this "я" is a faux-Cyrillic letter embedded in a word written in the Latin alphabet. Húsönd 05:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not clear on what makes this different from cute formatting. They're using faux Cyrillic to make it look more Russian by exploiting most English-speakers knowledge of what the letter "я" sounds like. I'm curious whether anything makes this case different from Pink (singer), Macy's TNA Impact!, and especially Korn - probably the closest comparable case. In those cases, the consensus has been pretty clear that MOS:TM is supported by the community.
As far as the accessibility being someone else's problem, that's not a tack I would support, basically telling blind readers that if they don't want to wait for software smart enough to read faux Cyrillic, then we simply don't care. It's not as if the first sentence in the lead doesn't directly address the typesetting, so I don't think we're going to confuse anyone by spelling "Teris" with and English "r".
I agree that I don't actually know how the average Cyrillic reader would read "Tetяis," but I fail to see why your personal supposition is any more reliable than mine. Maybe we can ask someone in a position to know, rather than guessing. Guessing that speakers of other languages will simply understand oddly formatted English sounds like a recipe for being proven wrong. I know that when Mötley Crüe played in Germany, audiences chanting the bands name pronounced the umlauts. They assumed that German-looking vowels were pronounced as German, even though they were embedded in the name of an English-speaking (and singing) American band. I also know that, growing up in America, I heard plenty of people pronouncing "CCCP" as "see-see-see-pee," when it clearly says, "ess-ess-ess-are". It seems that people interpret familiar-looking letters in a familiar way, despite the context. -GTBacchus(talk) 05:37, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not clear on what makes this different from cute formatting. They're using faux Cyrillic to make it look more Russian by exploiting most English-speakers knowledge of what the letter "я" sounds like. I'm curious whether anything makes this case different from Pink (singer), Macy's TNA Impact!, and especially Korn - probably the closest comparable case. In those cases, the consensus has been pretty clear that MOS:TM is supported by the community.
- This is not a matter of "cute formatting", although I acknowledge the soundness of your argument about accessibility. However, this is more of a problem for accessibility software to resolve than for Wikipedia. There will always be a few rare cases where accessibility will unfortunately have to be trumped, such as when a visual factor is essential to provide maximum accuracy. Your Cyrillic-reader argument is a personal supposition that can be much disputed. Personally, I think that a user whose primary alphabet is Cyrillic would be as confused about this title as a user with the Latin alphabet as primary. I much reckon that for any user it would look obvious that this "я" is a faux-Cyrillic letter embedded in a word written in the Latin alphabet. Húsönd 05:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - saying that something is "just a guideline" is really not an argument for or against anything. Neither is "official name," per hundreds of precedent cases, indicating a broad-based consensus. Will a blind reader using a reading program hear the title correctly? Accessibility trumps cute formatting, 10 times out of 10. Again, what about a reader who learned English after growing up with the Cyrillic alphabet? The most obvious pronunciation to them will be "Tet-ya-is". -GTBacchus(talk) 22:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Support, per my comments above, and per WP:MOS-TM, despite the perennial objection to it. -GTBacchus(talk) 22:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- Support. No source I can find takes the time to put the "я" in the title. This makes the "я" more of a stylistic touch, similar to I ♥ Huckabees (with the unnecessary heart) and matchbox twenty (with unnecessary lowercase). Xnux the Echidna 17:13, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Discussion
- Any additional comments:
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.