Talk:The Giving Pledge

Idea for this page

I think this page would be a lot more enjoyable to read if, next to each of the donor's names, was the thing that they were most famous for. For example- Bill Gates, Founder of Microsoft. Ted Turner, founder of CNN. Vinod Khosla, founder of Sun Microsystems. Seeing random names up there means nothing to me. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.164.87.165 (talk) 01:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

This board is not a discussion forum

This page is for talking about the the article content and not for discussing the subject of the article. Please see WP:FORUM for details. Blue Rasberry 14:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

unsustainable rate of accumulation?

So what is actually going on here? The proposal is essentially that this special class of top accumulators voluntarily remit 20-40% less than what they did in the Golden Age of Capitalism? 72.228.177.92 (talk) 16:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

This is not the place to discuss this. Blue Rasberry 14:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Benefits to those making the Pledge

This paragraph starts with an unclosed, unattributed quote. Where does the quote end? Where is the quote from? The whole thing needs to be either removed or rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:44:0:2034:101E:D028:62C6:E5 (talk) 13:39, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

religions of the people on the list

Can anyone spot anyone on the list who is Jewish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.225.211 (talk) 16:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

If you just want general information you can ask at the reference desk, but the way to get this information is to look in the biographies of all listed people. If you went to the reference desk you would be asking a volunteer to do that for you. Blue Rasberry 14:41, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Does it matter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.159.151 (talk) 20:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

George Lucas, T. Boone Pickens, Gates and Buffett themselves... --BDD (talk) 14:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

...are among the non-Jews. While there are several that are obvious. Strange comment. – RVJ (talk) 08:34, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Mechanism

So how does the giving actually work? Is it in a person's will? Is there a common date of donation? Is it just an honor-based pledge to give half of one's wealth over the long run? --BDD (talk) 14:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

It is the latter. Perhaps the article is unclear on that. – RVJ (talk) 08:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The Giving Pledge

The Giving Pledge may have originated in the United States, but it is now a worldwide phenomenon. Check list of pledgers: www.givingpledge.org Lucy JN (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2013 (UTC)Lucy JN

Bill gates as founder but Not Signatory?

Can anyone confirm this, or was it an oversight? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.27.101.200 (talk) 19:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

"...and wife"

The page currently lists a lot of "and wife" people. I used this term originally because as I recall, sometimes the wife was not named, and sometimes when she was it would be by first name only, and in several of the early cases the wife had a different last name than the husband.

There are better ways of presenting the women here. A user just proposed adding the husband's last name to all wives; this cannot be done without checking because sometimes the name does not match, and it is better to not say a last name than use a wrong one. It is difficult to say "John Blue and Ann" because that also communicates that the wife has the same name.

The procedure to follow here is to present all parts of all known names and leave the rest blank somehow. I am not sure how to do that. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:49, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

The user says, "All names provided are accurate as based on the actual text of the pledge", which satisfies me. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:54, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Suggestion - moving signatories to a category and removing the list

I am thinking that all of the signatories do (or should) have Wikipedia pages and that removing the list and creating a category might be desirable. I'll not make a WP:BOLD move, but rather listen to feedback here. Thanks. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea. The list is ever growing and changing, so I think it would be much easier to manage the needed updates via category rather than on the list on this page. I would support you making the bold edit. Safehaven86 (talk) 03:03, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

There is a category already, Category:Giving Pledgers. I do not support getting rid of the list as it easier to use than a category page, allowing people to read the article and then see the pledgers without going to a separate category page. NoMatterTryAgain (talk) 23:10, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi User:Ceyockey, User:Safehaven86 and User:NoMatterTryAgain, I support the removal of the list and replacing it with a category and an external link to the list at the official website. While the people on the list may be notable, their status as GP members is not notable and is supported only by a primary source. This is an unnecessary replication and gives undue weight. Those that are notable for their membership per reliable secondary sources can be mentioned in a single sentence with a citation to the reliable secondary source that reported it.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:09, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Keithbob, that makes sense to me. Perhaps this article could say something like "As of X date, X number of people have signed onto the Giving Pledge..." rather than listing them all out here. Safehaven86 (talk) 17:06, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

That is a good idea. In addition I would not be opposed to specific mentions if they are notable per reports in reliable secondary sources.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:54, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

There appears to be a consensus to remove the list. If there are no policy/guideline based objections, I will proceed with its removal.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:33, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, thanks! Safehaven86 (talk) 17:37, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done-- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:20, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Unsustainable list

I think having an exhaustive list of donors and their net worths is overkill. It's too hard to maintain. Just looking at the Giving List site now it lists 158 members/families, and the Wikipedia article has only 140. I recommend scrapping it and just referring interested readers to the web site. Timtempleton (talk) 16:29, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Timtempleton I think that many readers would like to read wiki articles about the people on the list. It is a problem that the list here is not up to date. Blue Rasberry (talk) 23:04, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Keep the list. Lots of subjects are hard to keep up-to-date, but that doesn't mean people aren't interested. Put at the top of the list "As of <date>", which fixes the problem. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 13:46, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

That's great if somebody can do it. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that it wasn't updated, but I do like the idea that readers can click to the donors' articles, which they would likely not be able to do on the giving pledge website. Timtempleton (talk) 15:38, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

list needs to go

bottom name on list is James E. Stowers and Virginia Stowers net worth of $100,000,000 they donated more than $500,000,000 (500 million) prior to net worth going down to current number and virginia is widowed as i understand

numbers and ordering on list deceptive main issue with list including net worths

list criteria should also be transparent

Minor comment

Glad I stumbled onto this page today. I definitely feel the page is notable, but agree the current list is not the best way to present an article.

Some comments:

• Like one another commenter on this Talk page above, I noted that the list is hard to read due to lack of context for some of the contributors. The other commenter suggested adding a remark on reason for fame/notability, but I see that as somewhat subjective. I thought a more objective contextualization might be nationality.
• Notwithstanding the above, categories does seem sensible, although a separate "list article" also seems reasonable to me.

Thanks

Bad sources - Forbes.com

I counted 138 references to personal profiles from Forbes, and a spotcheck shows that 6 out of 10 don't even MENTION The Giving Pledge, and the remainder just mention it in passing. This is NOT acceptable sourcing. --Calton | Talk 13:35, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Bad Criticism?

"As of April 2011, 69 billionaires had joined the campaign and given a pledge... By May 2017, 158 individuals and/or couples were listed as pledgers."

"Almost none of the signees have as of yet made significant progress towards upholding their pledge to give away half of their wealth, instead only accumulating more of it. Since the pledge was created in 2010, the wealth of the donors has not decreased but has instead increased from a combined $376 billion in 2010 to a combined $734 billion in 2020.[9]"

The latter needs clarification, and a better citation. The number of pledgers more than doubled between 2011 and 2017; no sheet you would expect the combined wealth to increase too. If the combined wealth relates only to those donors as at 2010, then that needs to be clarified. Kauri0.o (talk) 02:34, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Agreed! It indeed refers to the individual donors, not the total wealth, but I can see how this is not clearly mentioned. I'll see if I can find a reliable source; unfortunately it's relatively hard to determine the exact wealth of those who are very wealthy. Pprofijt (talk) 07:57, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

This sentence needs to be rephrased

"In addition, this "philanthrocapitalism" appears to indicate that capitalist mechanisms are superior to others, as it promotes private funding instead of government support to improve on social security nets.[13]" This sentence is imperfectly constructed. Someone should fix it so it's easier to understand. What's the point? Why is this a criticism? What are you talking about? Benevolent Prawn (talk) 20:20, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

List sorting

It would be nice if the list of people would ordered in e. g. alphabetical order by first name. Any ideas as to how it should be ordered? 31.164.93.56 (talk) 20:10, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Inconsistent handling of divorce

Bezos’ ex-wife’s source of wealth is listed as divorce.

In the same table, Melinda Gates’s source is listed as Microsoft. She did work there at one time, but my understanding is that she is wealthy mainly from having been married to Bill Gates. If I’m right, then the table should be handling them consistently. If I’m wrong, then table is okay as is. 47.139.40.116 (talk) 12:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Category:Giving Pledgers

Category:Giving Pledgers was deleted per consensus at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_March_30#Category:Giving_Pledgers. – Fayenatic London 08:42, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Oi eu recebi um e-mail dizendo q fui sorteada em ganhar uma doação meu nome é Simone Vieira o número é TD9209 2804:14C:BF2E:A5BA:F5D4:BC2F:155C:81C2 (talk) 01:42, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

List under what circumstances?

Someone proposed to delete the list and table of donors.

• special:diff/1185039249/1189712488

Let's discuss!

Reasons to remove:

• We lack the usual fact-checking third party sources for each item in the list
• Wikipedians love completeness and we are unlikely to ever find sources for all or even half the items in this list
• Including list entries, especially without third-party coverage, seems promotional
• The net worth numbers are wrong.

Reasons to include:

• Sources do exist for some items, and we could pull them
• This program arguably has already moved 100 billion dollars from the nobility into the democratic common interest, which is unique and unprecedented in history, and seems good
• It promises to move lots more money in this way, and is a high-traffic article, so it seems like content which readers want
• We could have a scrappy weird list which includes the few funders who have received media coverage about their participation in this program, but omits the others

Thoughts from others? Bluerasberry (talk) 19:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Error Alert: There are multiple notable errors, especially in the net worths which are extremely noticeable. Mark Zuckerberg is net worth was at 44.5 billion when the article cited said 139.