Talk:The Gold Diggers (1919 play)

Requested move 28 November 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close: per others nominated, there is an open RFC, no prejudice against speedy renomination on conclusion of RFC. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 14:27, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Gold Diggers (1919 play) → The Gold Diggers (Hopwood play) – Plays are covered by WP:NCBOOKS, and WP:BOOKDAB states that the author's surname should be used if further disambigution is needed, not year. --wooden superman 12:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC) --Relisted. Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 20:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Since that article you refer to only corresponds with literary works, plays such as this, a non-literary work, is not amongst those. --Discographer (talk) 13:01, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A play is a literary work. Per our own article: "A play is a form of literature written by a playwright [...] intended for theatrical performance". --wooden superman 13:05, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Lead by example: no play or musical article, at least with 700 or more performances, have authors listed as part of the title. Some may have as many as four authors, where placing that many amount of names as part of an article title is really just way too long. Anyway, here's some examples to follow:

--Discographer (talk) 13:27, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can you point me to the guideline which overrules WP:BOOKDAB? WP:NCOPERA also calls for author. --wooden superman 13:30, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You find the guideline, I'm the defender, not the offender, that's you. There are no modern-era play or musical articles showing any authors' names, only years. --Discographer (talk) 13:36, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've found the guideline. It's the one that says the author's surname should be used. Now it's up to you to defend your stance with a guideline that backs it up. --wooden superman 13:38, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here's my defense: There are no articles on major modern-era long-running plays or musicals that show authors names in the title. This is what I'm defending, in keeping with consistency.

In order to maintain consistency, guidelines need to be followed. Otherwise you have some, like this one, disambiguated by year, and some, such as One for the Road (Russell play)/One for the Road (Pinter play), disambiguated by author. --wooden superman 13:49, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Using major shows as an example, not minor ones. I listed three above, all in compliance with consistency. --Discographer (talk) 13:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Harold Pinter is a major playwright. Try Relatively Speaking (Ayckbourn play) too. --wooden superman 13:54, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For what its worth, The Gold Diggers (Aleichem play) is not even a notable play, though the author himself is. That article alone holds up this one here from being moved back to The Gold Diggers (play), where I think it should be at. --Discographer (talk) 13:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support The Gold Diggers (Hopwood play) In ictu oculi (talk) 16:46, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, of course, since it's not written material to read, and as provided at WP:BOOKDAB, where this very article does not even apply (see film and television), as that WP article is about books and not musicals or plays, which we watch (not read) just like film and television. All shows we watch, none we read. --Discographer (talk) 17:53, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, per Discographer - a play is something people watch or hear, not a book. The book title guideline the nominator bases this on, WP:NCBOOKS, reads (boldface mine) "This is a naming conventions guideline for the naming of Wikipedia articles about books, which includes printed books and e-books." Printed books. Not plays. And look at the other criteria in the lede. It specifically separates plays from books. It puts plays in the same category as films and paintings, reading "The titles of books (usually meaning the title of the literary work contained in the book) are capitalized by the same convention that governs other literary and artistic works such as plays, films, paintings etc." Randy Kryn (talk) 01:04, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BOOKDAB says "To disambiguate, add the type of literary work in parentheses, such as "(novel)", "(novella)", "(short story)", "(short story collection)", "(dialogue)", "(essay)", "(play)", "(poem)", "(poetry collection)", etc." --wooden superman 09:18, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. RFC on scope of WP:NCBOOKS at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (books)#RFC: Does this guideline cover plays and other literary works? --wooden superman 10:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Randy Kryn and others. Calidum 04:25, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We should sort out the guideline per the discussion going on at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (books) and then we can rename individual articles in accordance with the revised/confirmed guideline. --RL0919 (talk) 20:38, 6 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.