Talk:The Unraveling (Rise Against album)/GA2

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: DannyMusicEditor (talk · contribs) 19:58, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

As part of a review deal, I'd be happy to review this, but I'm going to start on Thursday, possibly Wednesday. Hope to see another wonderful passing article! dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 19:58, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Cites reliable sources, where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   It seems Wikipedia doesn't have an appropriate one available.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Toolbox checks

Everything in the GA toolbox checks out fine.

Lead & Infobox

• Album cover needs alt text, something I neglected to catch in "Give It All" (oops!)

Done, but if I do remember correctly, alt text is not a requirement for GA, just for FA. So if you ever do a review and ask for alt text, I believe that the nominator is allowed to say no. As for the alt text I added, it's really cut and dry, but for now it works. It's really late out here and I'm working the graveyard shift at my job, so I'm not really in the best mindset to try and accurately describe the album cover.

That must be fun

• As a result of their newfound exposure... What exposure? Elaborate on that in or before the current sentence.

There really is no mention of any exposure, I just figured that having a sentence begin that way would be a good transition. I revised the sentence. It's not the best and I've been trying to figure out how to rewrite it, but for now it works.

• Recording took place over the course of five weeks...

Done

• Link "critics" to music journalism

Done

• who praised the hardcore music

Done

• Why were the liner notes updated? Just cause it's 2005 and the band's lineup changed, or what? Elaborate, but don't overdo it for the lead.

Just rewrote it to say that it was released to coincide with the band's fifth anniversary, which is the more important part.

• Might want to indicate that it was out of print at one point (that's why it was reissued, right?)

Possibly, but just because the album is out of print on CD format doesn't mean that it's important enough to mention in the lead. This was more of an offhanded comment that Fat Wreck Chords just so happened to mentioned in the ref.

• A flatlist or hlist template is preferable for multiple genres, highly suggest even though not totally necessary.

Agree, done

Background and recording

• No comma necessary with Toni & Tim.

Done

• Might want to indicate that Tim was fresh out of leaving the bass position in Arma Angelus (possibly because of Rise Against), a metalcore band which featured all of Fall Out Boy's members at one point or another. Who knew, right?

I've known about this connection for a while, but the only ref I've found about McIlrath's involvement with Arma Angelus was an offhanded comment in an MTV interview back in 2006. However, I did mention McIlrath's previous involvement with Baxter, a band that he was the frontman for and constantly talks about.

• Possibly indicate Fat Mike is the NOFX vocalist? They did have notable success.

Tbh, I'm debating on this one. In the given context, it's only important to mention that Fat Mike is co-founder of Fat Wreck Chords, his involvement with another band unrelated to Rise Against is not necessary.

• Again with the exposure thing.

Reworded

• No need to spell out Sonic Iguana Studios twice so soon.

Done

Style and composition

• Jack Black isn't just an actor. He was in the process of making music and had become a musician at this point.

Hm, I always that he started Tenacious D after a few 90s comedy movies, but I added that he's also a musician

• fast pace fast-paced

Done

• Is "harder in sound" the best description you can possibly give?

Reworded

• more punk rock inspired more inspired by punk rock

Done

• "Everchaning" ???

Whoops, that must have slipped through the proof-read cracks. Done

• The eleventh track, "Everchaning", is a tune-oriented song, What's a tune-oriented song?

Working on this, just need to figure out the best way to phrase it.

Release and reception

• I don't think you're allowed to cite Wikipedia as a source even in this case. That being said, I don't think it needs sourced anyway. That'd be a WP:BLUE thing, I think. An FAC can correct me on that if I'm wrong.

Yeah I figured as much. How does it look now? I thought it might be a good idea to link to their discography, but I can just remove it entirely, since your right, it doesn't need to be sourced.

• No comma necessary after "My Life Inside Your Heart"

Done

• Add the Exclaim! review to the review box

Done, although Exclaim! did not give a score, so I just wrote positive.

Events after the album's release

I've never seen a post-release section in a GA album article. The first paragraph I think should be moved to the background section, the second to release.

Done

Alright, that's everything! Go! dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 02:56, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

After-comment: Looked at the review, and saw most of the work in this edit. I have to say, there were some things there that I liked that we don't have now. Some of those reviews I see are okay. I'd like you to restore the AltSounds review, both Punknews reviews (as it is reliable) and the second Sputnikmusic review. Only the initial reviews need to be put in the box, but please do mention the re-issue comments in the critical reception section. I am not positive if Punkbands.org is reliable, I've never seen it. Safe to keep out for now. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 03:54, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Just wanted to comment before editing the article. I'm fine with restoring the AltSounds review, as it is indeed a reliable source. However, since the reviewers called themselves "AppleBottom", I wasn't quite sure on the reliability of that one reviewer. As for the Punknews reviews, neither review was done by a staff member. According to WP:ALBUM/SOURCE, only staff reviews, recognizable by a tag. Neither Ground Control Magazine or Punkbands are listed as reliable sources for reviews according to Wikipedia. Also, for the other Punknews sources I use, I only used articles that were posted by staff members, as anonymous members can also post news updates. As for the comments, I'll get on them right now. Famous Hobo (talk) 04:06, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Oh, they weren't staff? Considering that this was nearly a GA almost five years ago I'd have thought that someone caught that. I made an assumption. Did you find anything reliable on Arma Angelus' relation to Tim? And at least explain to me what they mean by the vague expression "tune-oriented song". dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 17:59, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah the article review was alright back then, but it just missed the non reliable album reviews. I've addressed now all but one comment, and that should be done by tomorrow. Also, would you like me to add the AltSounds review, even with the possibly questionable reviewer? Famous Hobo (talk) 08:25, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

I would like that, but you don't have to list the author if you don't like it. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 19:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

In case you're having trouble finding references related to Arma Angelus, FOB, and Tim, here are a few good ones: [1] [2] dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 03:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Alright, now every comment has been taken care of. Personally, I probably don't think it's important to mention McIlrath's involvement with Arma Angelus in the article. Definitely for McIlrath's article, but since this is about the album, I don't think it's relevant. Famous Hobo (talk) 04:08, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I believe it is important to make a brief mention. (that's where he was before he joined the band...right? Did I get my history wrong?) Anyway, if you won't do it, that's okay, I'll just be bold and fix myself after I pass it. dannymusiceditor ^{Speak up!} 04:22, 30 November 2016 (UTC)