Talk:Thomas-Alexandre Dumas

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Biography: Military

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Biography[edit]

Later Life

In regards to the paragraphs concerning his fall from favor, I have heard that it was due to his refusal to lead the French forces sent to retake Haiti, not because he opposed the Egyptian campaigns, not to mention the anecdote attributed to Napoleon seems a bit far fetched. I've also recall him going quietly into retirement without a stint in a Neapolitan prison. Does anyone have anything to back up the current revision?

Burningdwarf (talk) 23:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be surprised that he was considered for the Saint-Domingue expedition since Napoleon ordered the actual commander, Leclerc, to arrest and deport all mixed-race officers from the Army of Saint-Domingue. I imagine his removal from the Army was part of a generalized campaign to whiten the French officer corps in the wake of the Saint-Domingue disaster and the tough campaign to retake Guadeloupe from a black army.

On another issue, I suspect that his mother was not a slave. There is no sign of a manumission either for her or for any of the children and the fact that she had a last name makes me suspect that she was a free woman of color. I have changed the appropriate section of the main article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stewart king (talk • contribs) 19:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC) Stewart king (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Was Thomas-Alexandre himself a slave child for a period?[edit]

An article published in Champs-Elysées (série 21, numéro 4, (c)2003), which is a magazine in French for English-speaking students of French, states that Alexandre Davy sold ("vendu") his slaves and his children before returning to France after the death of his wife and the destruction of his plantation. It continues, "Some years later, taken by remorse, he decided to buy back" Thomas-Alexandre and bring him to Europe. ("Quelques années plus tard, pris de remords, il décide de racheter l'aîné, Thomas Alexandre, et le fait venir en Europe.")

Perhaps it was possible to "sell" children in some arrangement other than slavery in that place and time, but it sounds like slavery to me. Marie Cessette was referred to as a "concubine," leaving unclear to me her possible slave status. But as to her "last name," the article says he chose Marie Cessette as a concubine "that one will nickname 'la Marie du mas.'" ("Il choisit une concubine, Marie Cessette, que l'on surnommera <<la Marie du mas>>.") Presumably, the "one" who would call her "Marie du mas" was Alexandre Davy, so I do not see that as evidence of a legal last name indicating that she was not a slave, as suggested in the comment above.

The subject of the Champs-Elysées article was a 2002 reissue of the highly regarded French-language biography of Alexandre Dumas père by Daniel Zimmermann, which appears to be the source for the historical information.

74.242.247.159 (talk) 03:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC) This article is in direct contradiction to the french wiki article on the same subject and I believe that the french are better informed. This article should be corrected.--83.200.156.17 (talk) 17:40, 8 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Too many historiography details[edit]

This article has lengthy content and notes immersed in discussions of differences among historic documents of early facts about Dumas. I don't think they need to be discussed at such length in the body of the article, but simply cited. This is not a historiographic review, but an article about the soldier. Many of these discussions are about minor historical variations, not major controversies. They slow down the flow of the article if given such prominence.Parkwells (talk) 19:12, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer to see the diversity of evidences regardless of the length of the article. I'm not concerned about 'slowness' - just a very good read, like many others. The article seems like a perfect length to me.--Joey123xz (talk) 05:15, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move "Names" and "Appearance"[edit]

Move to sections after he has become an adult, not before his birth.Parkwells (talk) 20:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Simplify repeated cites[edit]

Shorten repetition of cites from Reiss.Parkwells (talk) 20:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of Sarkozy is spurious[edit]

Text says "asking French Prime Minister Nicolas Sarkozy to award General Dumas the Légion d'honneur.[92]" Sarkozy was President of France from 2007 to 2012. Mr. Francois Fillon was prime minister. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.205.153 (talk) 07:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cavalry Commander in Egypt[edit]

I think it would be interesting to show the actual painting in this section that Napoleon promised to do of Dumas' role in the Cairo revolt. The painting was eventually commissioned and done by Girodet. But Napoleon's spite of Dumas even went on in the painting itself. The cavalry officer shown storming into the mosque is depicted as a white soldier instead.--Joey123xz (talk) 05:21, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

highest-ranking man of African descent ever in a European army.[edit]

Is this REALLY true. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a guy or three in todays French, British, (and maybe Dutch or Belgian) army that has a similar rank or higher. VsanoJ (talk) 01:31, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Abram Petrovich Gannibal, full African, (coincidentally, ancestor of another literary giant, Alexander Pushkin) had achieved the same rank in Russian Empire. The citation acknowledges that, but still considers Dumas to be the only one in continental Europe. I guess Russia is an island.94.20.42.4 (talk) 22:39, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really like the term of African descent. Dumas was the son of a white man and a black woman. So he was not fully African — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A03F:5018:7100:94C7:9DBF:28:33D5 (talk) 21:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation[edit]

Kpalion, in reference to your reversion, I think it would be good to put the hatnote for Alexandre Dumas (disambiguation) because the lead says "also known as Alexandre Dumas", and that confused me when I first came to this article and it must have confused someone else in the past as well, because Thomas-Alexandre Dumas is listed on the disambiguation page. —PermStrump(talk) 21:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanation, Permstrump. It makes sense, so I've self-reverted. I've made a small modification, though, to keep the language neutral. — Kpalion^(talk) 08:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Article picture not actually of Thomas-Alexandre Dumas?[edit]

I noticed the image in the infobox of this page indicates "Alexandre Dumas, painting by Olivier Pichat". However, the book The Black Count: Glory, Revolution, Betrayal, and the Real Count of Monte Cristo uses the same image on its cover but on the back cover says "This most widely known image of General Dumas is also the most curious because it clearly is not a painting of him - it is a painting of his son (n.b.: Alexandre Dumas), the novelist (Pichat's close friend), dressed up as his father, in full military uniform on a rearing horse." On the one hand, this implies the image is clearly not of the subject. On the other hand, if it's the most widely known image, even if it's not an accurate one, perhaps it's good enough? I'm not familiar enough with this sort of issue. 2001:410:A014:72:C425:E046:657:AAA (talk) 16:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]