Talk:Tiele people

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Tiele = Tele[edit]

Tiele (in Chinese) = Tele (in Turkic) says the Turkish historians... Böri (talk) 14:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Which Turkish historians ? In which sources ? Takabeg (talk) 14:56, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sencer Divitçioğlu, "Orta-Asya Türk Tarihi Üzerine Altı Çalışma" p:29, İmge Kitabevi Böri (talk) 07:38, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did historians said so or a historian ? Takabeg (talk) 08:26, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

from Wiki, History of the Turkic peoples : The second general term was "Tele", in Chinese pinyin transcription spelled Tiele, which covered a large number of Turkish Siberian tribes, and survived to the present as a root of the ethnic terms like Teleut and Telengit,

Historian or historians, I didn't count! But I saw it as "Tele". Böri (talk) 12:57, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The sound 'Te-le' was represented in Tang Dynasty annals as 特勒 for the Turkic confederation (ignoring the issue of Tang dynasty phonetic reconstruction for the moment). Nishidani (talk) 13:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merci. Here ("This is a well-known Turkic name which appears in Chinese sources as one of the tribes of the Tie-le or Te-le" tribal confederations)? But where did you find 特勒? Takabeg (talk) 13:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to oblige. It's in Drompp's index, p.333. I checked Mackerras's usually thorough coverage but he only has Tie-le listed. Nishidani (talk) 14:19, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The name gao (high) che (cart) and Sencer Divitçioğlu says: Telegen = "cart", so Gaoche = Tele people. Böri (talk) 14:23, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot find 特勒 in sources. Even if the pinyin of 特勒 is tèlè, but the reading of Chinese characters and pronunciations should have been different from modern Chinese at the time. Takabeg (talk) 15:18, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To repeat. It's in Drompp's index, p.333. Nishidani (talk) 15:31, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can add sources to article. I didn't understand why you removed {{fact}} without showing sources ? Takabeg (talk) 15:33, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

特勒 = dʰək lək in Guangyun. For reference... Takabeg (talk) 15:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look. Offhand in Tang dynasty Chinese 特勒 would sounds something like təklək, but you can check Pulleybank. That would be close to the Altaic word for a 'wheel' or 'wagoncart'. If you are not willing to take my word for it that on p.333 of the same volume I cited for Te-le=Tie-le, Te-le is glossed in the index on p.333, and don't want to trust that information, then stiff cheddar. I'm not in the practice of forging sources or information. Nishidani (talk) 15:41, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have insufficient knowledge on how "特勒" would have been rendered back in Tang times, but it was certainly used in many sources about Tang history. For example, in the Book of Tang, in the volume about Tujue history, it was used many times. (See Book of Tang, vol. 194, parts 1 and 2.) --Nlu (talk) 19:54, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In the Book of Tang the word "特勒" is used with the meaning of Tegin ("特勤"), not Tiele. Takabeg (talk) 02:02, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cite your source.Nishidani (talk) 10:41, 29 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lets de-crap this article[edit]

This article used to have a nice map what happened to it?

also all of the names are chinese, yet these people are in fact not chinese. we must use the correct turkish names of tribes and people with chinese in brackets

Chinese is used because the source is primarily Chinese. Tiele is the accepted and widely-used term. Hzh (talk) 22:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the map that was asked about years ago? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 23:29, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify[edit]

To clarify in this article: what is the connection between the Tiele and the Uyghurs? Without context provided in the lead paragraphs, phrases like "the Uyghur and the rest of the twelve Tiele chiefs" or "The Uyghur were prominent among the Tiele tribes" don't really make sense. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 23:30, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mixup[edit]

Something went wrong with this section: "The greater part of the latter two possibly fled back to the steppe and were not heard of after 524 and 445 respectively. The Western Chile (mainly the Hulu and Tiele related to Fufuluo's Qifuli (泣伏利) clan) being caused by a horse race but which by a horse race but which south and were eventually assimilated". This was an edit by user Elinruby on January 29, 2021. Maybe other things went wrong with his edits on that day, too. I would suggest other editors to look into this. Glatisant (talk) 10:28, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]