Talk:Time to Die (Electric Wizard album)

Content dispute

This is what DoomDoer added to the article, and various IPs don't like:

Original wording

Shortly after writing and recording the album, Mark Greening was fired by the band and the album was released without Greening's permission or receipt of any payment for his work, thus placing both Spinefarm Records and the band in breach of Greening's copyright. As a result of the ongoing legal action by Mark Greening against the band for their infringement of his copyrights and failure to pay him for his work writing and performing on the album, on 20 May 2015, Universal Music Group International and Spinefarm Records made the decision to withdraw the album and all associated products from sale until the dispute is finalised.

References

The first problem with this is that the sources say nothing about "breach of copyright" so the wording is contentious. The second is that a blogspot is not a reliable source. But, I'll accept the two other sources unless someone (other than the IPs) object, with this wording:

Proposed wording

Shortly after the recording of the album, Mark Greening left the band. According to some sources he either quit or was fired. As a result of ongoing legal action by Greening , Universal Music Group International and Spinefarm Records made the decision to withdraw the album and all associated products from sale from both retail and streaming services until the dispute is finalised.

References

Feel free to comment below, the article is fully protected at the moment. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 22:21, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The reference to Mark Greening's firing on the wonderingsound website is only 'claimed' by the writer. It is not substantiated in the actual interview. Jus Oborn does not make this claim. The claim could have been made by the writer based on his on 'personal' opinion or derived from other unsubstantiated online sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.157.28 (talk) 23:13, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be, it's separate from the interview section and it does not seem to imply that it came from the interview. It's just part of the overall article. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 16:28, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Still its hardly an accurate and reliable source. The facts regarding Greenings exit from the band are not public knowledge and have not ,as yet, been discussed publicly by the band. I would also add that it is irrelevant to the actual album as it reportedly happened after the recording session. If the changes were implemented I also object to the wording proposed. Also Mark Greening did not solely write the album, the wording is misleading. "Shortly after recording the album, Mark Greening was , according to one internet source , fired by the band." Would be more accurate if in reference to the unsubstantiated source. Also the second part is refering to a current problem that is as yet unsolved? It would seem to be somewhat irrelevant as yet. Will wikipedia be updated? Is wikipedia a news/gossip based project? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.157.28 (talk) 18:22, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

http://www.musictimes.com/articles/40836/20150613/electric-wizard-acclaimed-time-to-die-pulled-due-lawsuit.htm This article refers to Mark Greening 'quitting' for a second time. http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/internal-legal-disputes-force-electric-wizards-time-to-die-off-the-shelves This article refers to Mark Greening 'leaving' the band. http://www.metalsucks.net/2015/06/11/electric-wizards-time-to-die-removed-from-retail-outlets-in-wake-of-financial-dispute-between-the-band-and-drummer-mark-greening/ And even this article proposed by DoomDodo refers to Mark Greening 'leaving' a second time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.157.28 (talk) 18:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

That's not a problem, it can be noted in the blurb (which I just did). §FreeRangeFrog^croak 21:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Also, it doesn't matter how many times he left or whatever - that's detail for the band's article, not here. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 22:27, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 17 June 2015

Shortly after writing and recording the album, and prior to the album's release, Mark Greening was fired by the band [1] (this link is an interview with the band confirming Greening was fired) & [2] (another confirmation of Greening being fired) [3] & [4] (Greening confirming he was fired from the band after writing & recording the album) The album was released by Spinefarm Records, despite Greening's claims that he had not been paid by the band for his work or given his permission for his performance on the album to be used. Upon hearing this, a fan set up a controversial Facebook page in protest of Greening being fired and unpaid, with the hope of prompting the band to resolve the matter with Greening [5] It is understood that the band's excuse for not paying is that they spent the record advance from the label recording the album, however in a number of interviews, the band confirm that it was entirely paid for prior to signing with Spinefarm. [6] & [7] As a result of the ongoing legal action by Greening against the band's infringement of his copyrights and failure to pay him for his work on the album, [8] on 20 May 2015, Universal Music Group International and Spinefarm Records made the decision to withdraw the album and all associated products from sale until the dispute is finalised so as not to infringe Greening's copyright claim. [9] & [10] & [11] DoomDoer (talk) 14:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Not done: DoomDoer you did not provide any sources to begin with, and I honestly object to your wording as being too slanted in favor of Greening (which I suppose is understandable since you are here at his behest). Certainly no mention of "controversial Facebook pages" unless that is covered by secondary sources, and no "he said-they said" deals not supported by sources. Further, most of the material should be added to the article about the band (where applicable and appropriate), not here. This is just about an album. Whatever ends up being added will need to be limited in scope, worded neutrally and look like the proposed wording up top, so I suggest you base your suggestions on that. Attempting to champion or advocate Greening's position in the matter here will not work, ever. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 18:33, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Yet again Doomdodo submits a ridiculous and biased addition to the Time To Die page, this information is exaggerated and unnessasary and of little or no relevance to the actual LP. This has been done in an attempt to use wikipedia to influence the public and to back their legal claims. Furthermore the articles were all written after DoomDoDo's original edits specifically to be used for wikipedia !! Their actions are destructive, manipulative and immature and undermine the whole integrity of wikipedia. Thanks FreeRangeFrog for exercising reason.

DoomDoer has attempted to vandalise the page again. This time using an IP. Obviously it is the same person again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.125.163.205 (talk) 22:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)