Talk:Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4

Mike Valley Error

This article should really mention the error that Neversoft did with Mike V in THPS4. If this isn't believable than watch this URL I posted. YouTube - Mike V pissed about THPS4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.25.198.208 (talk) 02:57, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Unpopular?

How come they dont remake levels from this game like they do thps3 is it because it wasnt as popular or didnt sell goood? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.93.26.22 (talk) 17:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Reception

I'll add a section if I ever get time... http://au.ps2.ign.com/articles/375/375225p1.html Iciac (talk) 07:00, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Stop removing the soundtrack

Some people keep removing the sound track (not just from this but the whole series). For no aparent reason at least explain why you are before you do it please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.162.217.46 (talk) 15:59, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree, i am restoring it right know.---djsiniestros (talk) 00:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

ACDC - TNT

Aesop rock - Labor

Agent Orange - Speed kills (darkness version)

Avail - Simple song

Bouncing Souls - Manthem

City Stars - Bad dreams

De la soul - oodles of o's

Delinquent Habits - House of the rising drum

Eyedea & Abilities - Big shots

Flogging molly - Drunken lullabies

Mass appeal - Mass appeal

Goldfinger - Spokesman

Haiku de'etat - Non compos mentis

Hot water music - Freightliner

Iron maiden - Number of the beast

JFA - Beach Blanket Bongout

Less Than Jake - All my friends are metalheads

Lootpack - Whenimondamic

Chad muska ft. Biz markie - Body rock

Chad muska ft. Jeru the damaja - Verses of doom

Chad muska ft. Melle mel - I'm a star.

Nebula - Giant

N.W.A - Express yourself

Public Enemy - By the time i get to arizona

Rocket from the Crypt - Savoir faire

Run DMC - My Adidas

System of a Down - Shimmy

The cult - Bad fun

Distillers - Seneca falls

The Faction - Skate and destroy

The Offspring - Blackball

Sex Pistols - Anarchy in the UK

Toy dolls - Dig that groove baby

Us bombs - Yer country

Zeke - Death alley Magicianbink (talk) 07:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Soundtrack Lists (deleting/editing)

Skateboarding and music go hand in hand. Anyone who has seen any skate video or any extreme sports video can tell you that they set

all the action to excellent music (debatable), and the Tony Hawk Pro Skater games and a few other games (Matt Hoffman's pro BMX,

etc.) capture the visual and aural aesthetic. I agree that just adding the list is a little dull and can make the article seem oddly

edited, so i propose that I should add some notes/blurbs (starting with the first game), to not only convey the points I've made here, but to also give the articles some form of cohesiveness. looking forward to any feedback Magicianbink (talk) 07:26, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Hello. Unfortunately, that music and extreme sports "go hand in hand" in not a good enough reason to include a list of songs in the article (the same rationale could be made with FPS' and guns, but no FPS article will have a list of guns - see WP:GAMECRUFT). If you want to include a list of songs, the best idea is to get the list of songs from an officially released soundtrack, formatted appropriately - Mario Galaxy is a good example to follow. Thanks! Fin©™ 10:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree for the most part. but you didn't respond to my compromise. I understand that a stand alone list isn't Ideal but i intend to incorporate it in a way that is relevant to the genre. So because we cant make a list in one article, we cant do it on another regardless of how relevant it is?. I understand there are rules, but there are also exceptions to the rules and if you cant see my point then we aren't going to get anywhere, I can see where you're coming from it's silly to just have a list of music. I and many others feel that these games should have there respective play lists within the articles is our request that unthinkable? Magicianbink (talk) 00:37, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

The rules say what they say. Remember, Wikipedia isn't a democracy - It's based on censensus, and the consensus here is that this list is inappropriate, and we've pointed to the relevant guidelines, mainly WP:GAMECRUFT. Eik Corell (talk) 03:14, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Reading rules as gospel is a problem in and of itself, also i have read the rules and it's obviously debatable in this case, and again i understand that a list on it's own isn't proper but i intend to work on it, given the chance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Magicianbink (talk • contribs) 05:01, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Look, an arbitrary list of "songs that are in the game" will never be appropriate. It's ok in a music game (like Guitar Hero), it's ok if the songs are from a soundtrack (per my Mario Galaxy example) and it's ok if just a few are mentioned ("The game includes music by A and B"). If you want to work on it (and it'll take more than a few minutes), then the best idea is probably create a temp page in your own user space and go from there. Thanks! Fin©™ 09:25, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Also, to say "i'll have it ready soon" is not a valid reason to keep it - like I say, if you want to work on it, create a page in your user space, or even just make one huge edit with your changes. Thanks! Fin©™ 09:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I have begun editing the soundtrack list, give me time and ill have it done within two weeks starting today Sunday march 21st if by the time im done you don't like what I've done with it ill concede, also i have seen other articles having a separate page with a link to the soundtrack. that may be something to consider. any help would be appreciated Magicianbink (talk) 00:24, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

you all like to point out WP:GAMECRUFT to prove why the soundtrack listings aren't appropriate but i can just as easily point out why they're just fine given the content, so instead i ask that you all read ---> and give me time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CIVIL#Assume_good_faith Magicianbink (talk) 00:27, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

You don't seem to be listening to what I'm saying. If you wish to develop the list over a long period (two weeks), the article itself isn't the place for that - use your user namespace or, in the worst case, a saved .txt file and notepad. Not sure why you're linking to WP:GOODFAITH - I don't deny your intentions are good, but an arbitrary list of songs contained in a game simply shouldn't be in an article, unless covered by the exceptions I've noted above. Thanks! Fin©™ 11:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Pointless...Magicianbink (talk) 15:34, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

This-> "I believe Jasca Ducato described it best in the summary when re-adding the soundtrack to the page: "this article is here to describe the game and its different aspects, including the soundtrack". The soundtrack is information regarding the game; it's not some random list of songs about a random topic that has and will continue to have an indefinite length. The soundtrack is set in stone and has been officially stated, and will most likely remain that way. The only other songs in the game are custom soundtracks that come as part of the Xbox 360 version, which obviously are not important" Magicianbink (talk) 21:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

You're still not listening to what we're saying. Please stop re-adding the list - The soundtrack is not notable enough for inclusion. The same goes for first-person shooters for example - Lists of weapons will be deleted per the WP:GAMECRUFT policy, unless they are somehow intrinsically linked to the gameplay itself, one example being Quake, where the rocket launcher helps players to navigate the map. How does the soundtrack to this game stand out? Has it received any notable third-party coverage? In order for something to be included in Wikipedia, it must be supported by reliable sources. That's from the WP:V policy, one of the most important guidelines of Wikipedia. Eik Corell (talk) 00:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

As I've said above, and as Eik alludes to, your best bet is to include a list of songs from an officially released soundtrack. A list of the songs contained in the game simply isn't notable. I've given you several options, please at least discuss these before simply reverting. Thanks! Fin©™ 20:53, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Consensus..? you mean you and a couple of other "well meaning" users muscling in and deciding what is right for this article by deleting a relevant piece of information regarding this genre and style of video game. if you can give me a reason outside of the one wiki rule you keep referencing that would make this a MAJOR violation of policy and ill consider ending my dispute here. I get it I'm a new user and you have been here for a time and feel that your decisions hold more weight than my own, but that doesn't change the fact that this article should include the in game soundtrack. It's been a notable part of the series, the soundtrack in all of these games helps create an "audio image" of how these sports are represented as well as having been one of the first set of games to utilize a wide array of licensed songs, so yes a stand alone list obviously doesn't do justice to all of that but heck it's a start and i intend on making it better. if given the chance Magicianbink (talk) 21:04, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Your argument about users "muscling in" doesn't hold much weight - I could say exactly the same about you - muscling in, deciding what is right etc (though I don't believe that's what you're doing, good faith and that). Why does there need to be a reason outside of policy? But since you asked, here are a few reasons: it would clutter the article; it's not useful to the average reader; it's rather arbitrary; it's WP:GAMECRUFT, it's an indiscriminate list of information. For what I think is the fourth time add the officially released soundtrack if you wish to convey the "audio image" of the sports. Don't just add a list of the songs. This is the third time I've told you that if you want to improve the article, don't just add the information and say "I'll fix it later", create a page in your namespace and work on it there. This isn't about you being a new user, I've read what OutOfTimer has said, a lot of it is total crap. If you added songs from the official soundtrack as your first edit, I've no problem. When you constantly revert, ignore policy and don't discuss it outside of "it needs to be in the article because music is a big part of the sport", that's when the problems arise. Surely the skating locations and skaters themselves are as big a part as the music? They're not included as a list though, as they're WP:GAMECRUFT. Thanks! Fin©™ 21:14, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

So you alone know whats best for these articles, or you and Eik Corell i guess. The sad reality is that there is a large majority of people that would agree with me but sadly they are all either "wiki neutral" or have been chased out by editors such as yourself who forget that Exceptions do apply. i see there's no point in appealing to your better nature. I wish i could say i was giving up but I'm not, I will continue working on the article with or without your support hopefully you will be pleased with the finished product enjoy deleting it without checking for improvements thanks Magicianbink (talk) 21:33, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

No, how many times do I have to say this, there is policy. This is not personal. This is not about you or me. Policy says not to include them. This isn't about people agreeing or wanting the songs included. Some people might want to see a list of all the cars in Forza 3, but that list is not on Wikipedia. Seeing as this is a bit more wide-ranging than I thought (you've edited all the Tony Hawk articles), I think I'll bring it up at WT:VG. Thanks! Fin©™ 21:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Another way of looking at this: A list of music in the game is not appropriate, since this is merely WP:LISTCRUFT. If instead you wanted to add a section about the general relevance of the soundtrack in the game, or series as a whole, you would need a reliable third-party source you could cite for this, otherwise it would be original research. WP:OR deals with info that is possibly only derived from the reader themself, i.e claiming that some part of the game is or is not very important -- There's simply no way to tell whether this is worth mentioning unless an expert within the field has written about it. I'm not that well-versed within this field, but I'd say if you can find something from, say, skateboardermag.com or another recognized authority that directly supports the significance of the soundtrack, that would justify it. Eik Corell (talk) 07:50, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

And just to clarify, a recognised expert writing in a source recognised as reliable and verifiable. If an expert contributes to wikipedia with knowledge not backed up by sources, that's still original research. Thanks! Fin©™ 09:12, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Seriously...? It's like talking to walls with you two..i wish i knew why you're addressing this as if you are some sort of post apocalyptic Wikipedia drones, policy policy policy, if you read up on policy you would know that lists are ok if they are relevant to the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Magicianbink (talk • contribs) 00:15, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I have to ask: With all the words we've wasted on you, do you actually know what consensus means? Consensus, as it relates here, is when the majority of editors agree on something. There is a consensus here, and it is to keep this stuff out of the article, and we have linked the guidelines that are behind this consensus. Have you actually read the the rules we have linked to you? You give the distinct impression that you're not actually reading what we're saying, or just plain disregarding it. Eik Corell (talk) 20:16, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Two editors...vs the dozens of users and readers that have either tried and gave up or would enjoy such content. i have read the rules and i have pointed out the fact that it Isn't as clear cut as you claim it is and gives leeway under certain circumstances, i agree with you about lists in many other categories (like Falcon9x5 removing it from Need for speed underground). i understand your position, you don't want to give in here and have a ton of other users debating this same issue due to one set of articles but i cant drop my case because of what you may have to endure editing wise sorry Magicianbink (talk) 00:35, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention that Wikipedia:Listcruft sates this Essay.svg This essay contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors on the Wikipedia is not a directory policy. Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Consider these views with discretion. and not to mention that a lists with a lead section is perfectly within policy listen help me help you and ill find a solution that benefits us all otherwise we aren't getting anywhere Magicianbink (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

The only policy for this content is WP:Verifiability, so the soundtrack list is not explicitly ruled out, nor have I seen any concensus one way or the other. Personally, I would prefer not to have the list, unless the soundtrack itself is notable, in which case it can be split off into an article of its own. Otherwise I want to see a paragraph describing the soundtrack using commentry from reliable, third-party sources, naming a few example tracks. Readers interested in perusing the full track list need but follow the citation link. Marasmusine (talk) 09:07, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

How about this - I'm formating the soundtrack list to a drop-down menu, as it would optimally be anyway, so all it takes to make it appear is to click Show next to the soundtrack section. It's still there in its entirety, but doesn't clog up the article. Eik Corell (talk) 12:53, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

I think this is the best way to go alright - a paragraph describing the soundtrack, with a few example tracks. Thanks! Fin©™ 13:05, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Excellent idea, ill start tracking down some info. I'm glad we came to a some sort of agreement Magicianbink (talk) 18:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Pro Wakeboarding game demo

The PS2 version of the game also had a Demo of Wakeboarding videogame included. This should be included in the article, possibly a mention in the game modes section. Otherwise a link to an article, if one exists, in a see also section should suffice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.53.218.144 (talk) 03:53, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

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