Talk:Tourism in ancient Rome

Tourism in ancient Rome is currently a World history good article nominee. Nominated by Graearms (talk) at 23:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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Short description: Tourism and vacation sites in ancient Rome

A fact from Tourism in ancient Rome appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 November 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the ancient Roman tourist destination of Baiae was infamous for its hedonism?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Tourism in ancient Rome.

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Declined?[edit]

I find it a little perplexing that this article failed new article review. Though I do agree that 'Tourism in ancient Rome' would make a better title. Tewdar 13:44, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, I don't see how This submission reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. Perhaps someone could point to something specific... Tewdar 15:48, 14 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by RoySmith (talk) 23:16, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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House in Baiae

... that the ancient Roman tourist destination of Baiae was infamous for its hedonism? Source: ^[1]^[2]
- ALT1: ... that the Pyramids of Giza were popular destinations for ancient Roman tourists? Source: ^[3]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Old Dartmouth

Created by Graearms (talk). Self-nominated at 17:43, 22 October 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image eligibility:

Freely licensed:
Used in article: - no
Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article looks fine, another addition to the recently growing coverage of Ancient Rome! Only a few minor issues:

I've simplyfied some wikilinks by simply putting the plural "s" directly after the brackets (the software identifies this as a plural and adjusts the displayed link). However, I am confused why you are piping "Marsielle" to "Marseille"? The former is only a misspelling of the modern city, while the Ancient Greek and Latin name would be Massalia (which has its own article). Maybe change the wikilink to point there?
The title "In culture" for the section feels a little weird, as it doesn't exactly deal with cultural coverage of tourism. However, I don't know what to put there instead. Not an issue for DYK, just wanted to say it.
The image you attached to the nom is not used in the article currently; instead there's another one, File:Villa dell'Ambulatio 13.JPG. Please decide which one you want to see in the DYK, and then add that to both the nomination here and the article.

Once the picture thing is sorted, I'll approve. –LordPeterII (talk) 17:21, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Parco Archeologico Sommerso di Baia - Campi Flegrei". Parco Archeologico Sommerso di Baia (in Italian). Archived from the original on October 22, 2022. Retrieved 2022-10-22.
^ Beard, Mary (May 20, 2022). "Evidence of tourism in the ancient world". TLS. Archived from the original on August 13, 2022. Retrieved August 13, 2022.
^ Perrottet, Tony (2002). Route 66 A.D. : on the trail of ancient Roman tourists. Internet Archive. New York : Random House. pp. 3–348. ISBN 978-0-375-50432-7.

I changed "Marseille" to "Massalia" and the "In Culture" section to the "Motives" section. I also fixed the picture. Graearms (talk) 01:11, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Then I approve. –LordPeterII (talk) 18:05, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Graearms I was going to promote the first hook, but don't see where the cited source says anything about hedonism. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith I edited the references of the articles. Also it says that Baiae was known for hedonism in this source. Graearms (talk) 19:00, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tourism in ancient Rome/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Graearms (talk · contribs) 23:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: UndercoverClassicist (talk · contribs) 19:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will give this one a look over the next few days. Hat off to you for attempting to bring such a broad, synthetic topic within the sometimes unruly constraints of a Wikipedia article. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 19:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoyed reading this one: it does a good job of moving smoothly over a great deal of material. A few initial thoughts:

The biggest thing that stands out to me, at the moment, is the lack of chronological markers or acknowledgements of change over time. Roman history begins (at least) c. 500 BCE, but parts of the article read as if Rome was always a Mediterranean-spanning empire, that piracy was never a problem, or that people could always visit the Colosseum. Similarly, we have Hippocrates and Galen in consecutive sentences, as if they were contemporaries; they lived about half a millennium apart.
Building on that point, the article tends to treat all Greco-Roman sources as interchangeable, but we need some awareness of when these people wrote and who they were. We can't, for example, give the impression that Varro, Pliny, Lucian and Horace all lived in basically the same world.
The GA criteria don't require comprehensiveness, but I was surprised that the the Bibliography seems to consist largely of older or less scholarly works. There isn't a huge bibliography on the topic of tourism directly, but it does exist: see the bibliography of this paper for a few good bits, and the Oxford Classical Dictionary has a brief entry under "Tourism", as does the Cambridge Dictionary of Classical Civilisation (including a little on Late Antiquity; see below).
On which, there are a few citations, such as Lomine 2005 and Elsner and Rutherford 2007, where an edited volume with individual contributors is cited, but it isn't clear who should be credited for the cited text.
I am surprised to see very little of some of the most famous tourists in the Roman Empire: Pausanias (NB spelling mistake in article: not Pausanius) and Hadrian's entourage immediately spring to mind. On medical tourism, Aelius Aristides seems a curious omission.
Late Antiquity seems conspicuous by its absence, we briefly allude to Christianity in the form of St. Paul, but I otherwise have no indication here that Rome was a Christian empire for hundreds of years.
When citing an ancient source as quoted in a modern one, it would be useful to provide a link to the ancient source in addition to (not instead of) the secondary quotation. Most can be found freely on Perseus.

Let me know how you get on with these and I"ll give the article a more detailed look. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 06:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Parco Archeologico Sommerso di Baia - Campi Flegrei". Parco Archeologico Sommerso di Baia (in Italian). Archived from the original on October 22, 2022. Retrieved 2022-10-22.

[2] Beard, Mary (May 20, 2022). "Evidence of tourism in the ancient world". TLS. Archived from the original on August 13, 2022. Retrieved August 13, 2022.

[3] Perrottet, Tony (2002). Route 66 A.D. : on the trail of ancient Roman tourists. Internet Archive. New York : Random House. pp. 3–348. ISBN 978-0-375-50432-7.

[1]

[2]

[3]