Talk:Triangulation (psychology)

There should be a bibliography. This should be listed. Family Psychology: the Art of the Science by William N Pinsof and Jay Lebow. Oxford University Press, 2005. rumjal 12:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

"Cross-generational coalition" section redundant[edit]

The subsection "cross-generational coalition" simply repeats information in the section "The Perverse Triangle". Propose that it be merged with the Perverse Triangle section, with "cross-generational coalition" added as a synonym for the perverse triangle concept as long as the sources are found to support this, along with a statement of effects on children according to sources ("These are harmful to children" being the only unique statement in this subsection). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Livin270 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Triangulation (psychology)[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Triangulation (psychology)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "BPDFamily":

From Abusive power and control: Johnson, R. Skip (16 August 2014). "Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)". BPDFamily.com. Retrieved 18 October 2014.
From Enabling: Johnson, R. Skip (13 July 2014). "Codependency and Codependent Relationships". BPDFamily.com. Retrieved 9 September 2014.
From Emotional blackmail: Johnson, R. Skip (16 August 2014). "Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)". BPDFamily.com. Retrieved 18 October 2014.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 15:55, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose organizing article to make different uses more clear[edit]

There are at least 3 distinctly different concepts of triangulation in this article, which is confusing. Some things are also inaccurate. I think it will help to establish better context for where each meaning comes from & better separation of the three different uses. Propose renaming & editing the current three major sections of the article:

1. "Family Systems Therapy": Bowen's Family Theory became a foundation for the family systems theory/framework aka family therapy. This section discusses Bowen's original concept of triangling: a third party becomes involved in a two-person relationship due to stress in the system. Add that roles may shift, but two members are always bonding more closely with each other than with the third. Make clear that Bowen used the term "triangling" rather than "triangulation". ^[1]^[2] Mention Bowen's use of the tem "triangling" as a synonym for gossipping, i.e. reflexively bonding with others by seeking to establish the "togetherness side" of the triangle in relation to an absent third party.^[3] Then name Minuchin's oiginal & more specific use of the term "triangulation" in Structural Family Therapy to refer to one of three particular "rigid triangle" scenarios where the child is pressured by each parent to take sides against the other parent. ^[4] Minuchin's construct of triangulation has been widely researched as a contributing factor to the established relationship between parental spousal conflict and child maladaption. ^[5]. Could divide section into "Family Theory" and "Structural Family Therapy" subsections.

2. "Psychoanalytic theory of early triangulation": triangulation as a mentally formative, primal process, unrelated to system stress/conflict but simply occurring by the child interacting with both parents as opposed to just one, seems specific to the psychoanalytic model. If this particular construct is more broadly used, a more general title may be appropriate, but a perspective from at least one other model of child development should be added. (The Bowen/Minuchin construct of triangulation is researched in child and adolescent development, and tends to be associated with maladaptive outcomes, but should not be mentioned here as it's a different concept). This section should probably be moved to the end because the other two sections are more directly related.

3. "Pathological triangulation": Move "The Perverse Triangle" subsection down to this section, improve sources and content, and redirect readers to other articles. The widely-used^[6] pop^[7] psych^[8] concept^[9] of someone intentionally triangulating a relationship to achieve pathological manipulation or abusive control has veered from the family systems concept, which Laura Brooks from the Bowen Center describes as natural, automatic, and "not pathology"^[10]. Yet popular internet articles routinely characterize triangulation as Machiavellian.^[11] "Destabilizing triangulation" is therefore likely to be misunderstood; it also may confuse abuse survivors who understand control techniques as an abuser's strategies to maintain i.e. "stabilize" the power-imbalanced status quo. The constructs of narcissistic triangulation or toxic triangulation don't seem to exist in verifiable psychology literature, but people are coming to this article looking for them. So, in this section we can show the roots of the pop psych triangulation concept in established psychology. These seem to be 1) Minuchin's "triangulation" (i.e. Haley's perverse triangle, i.e. Bowen's pathological triangle, i.e. cross-generational coalition) as an early model for parental alienation, 2) Minuchin's "detouring coalition", a rigid triangle where the child is scapegoated by the parents (echoing Bowen's concept of "the triadic one", a child targeted for projection of family anxieties). ^[12]^[13] The concepts of boundary dissolution or emotional fusion vs. differentiation might warrant use.^[14] Then we can point them towards Isolation to facilitate abuse, discrediting tactics, Destabilization#psychology, gaslighting, divide and rule or other established terms for the concept they're looking for.

Please give feedback on this proposal, thanks very much. Livin270 (talk) 09:48, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally: the intro will be edited. Triangulation is just as much Minuchin's term as it is Bowen's term - Kerig & Swanson don't even mention Bowen in their analysis of the construct. ^[15]. Livin270 (talk) 10:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

COMMENT: I think the explaining concept in clear terms and explaining the basic outcomes should be the core message of this article:

a stable pair can become destabilized by a third person;
a stable pair can also be destabilized by the removal of the third person (an example would be a child leaving home and no longer available for triangulation);
an unstable pair can be stabilized by the addition of a third person (an example would be a conflictual marriage becoming more harmonious after the birth of a child); and
an unstable pair being stabilized by the removal of a third person (an example would be conflict is reduced by the removal of a third person who takes sides).

Providing a "History" section would be valuable. Also providing an applications/specialization/situation section (not by that name) that discusses triangulation in parenting, relationships, groups, etc. would be helpful.

I think its important not to load these psychology articles with highly specific technical details (Bowen vs Berne vs Minuchin vs ....), use a lot if technical jargon, spend any time reinforcing pop-psychology misuse of these concepts, or link it to the Dark Triad or Hitler. I'll be glad to help clean up this article. Wiki-psyc (talk) 17:36, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

Disambiguation[edit]

Both the psychology and politics article are in circular references to each other in the hat note. I tried sending it to the disambiguation page for "Triangulation" but I'm not smart enough to figure it out. It keeps trying to disambiguate the full name "Triangulation (psychology)" instead of just "Triangulation". Perhaps some kind soul can fix both the psychology and politics articles to link to the disambiguation page to break the loop. I'll watch the articles to learn how to do it properly in the future. Thank you. 170.202.22.122 (talk) 12:49, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.thefsi.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Bowen-Family-Systems-Theory-and-Practice_Illustration-and-Critique.pdf

[2] ttps://www.google.com/books/edition/Family_Therapy_in_Clinical_Practice/

[3] ttps://ebin.pub/family-therapy-in-clinical-practice.html

[4] ttps://www.google.com/books/edition/Families_and_Family_Therapy/axghpmx-540C?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=triangulation

[5] ttps://doi.org/10.1037/12058-005

[6] ttps://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2019/10/triangulation-and-narcissism#1

[7] ttps://newpointofviewcounseling.com/triangulation-playing-one-person-another/

[8] ttps://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/what-is-toxic-triangulation

[9] ttps://www.healthline.com/health/narcissistic-triangulation#examples

[10] ttps://www.vice.com/en/article/ev8bjm/the-triangulation-theory-may-explain-why-some-childhoods-are-so-stressful

[11] ttps://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/understanding-narcissism/202008/have-you-been-the-victim-narcissistic-triangulation

[12] ttps://books.google.com/books?id=EZpSZWkMw0wC&pg=PA112&lpg=PA112&dq=minuchin+detour+triangle+scapegoat&source=bl&ots=skSHqyPjiP&sig=ACfU3U3QC6zmjT3U0Elvn23_drFLssOvdw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWq6DUzsHzAhUej3IEHY0gCfwQ6AF6BAgPEAM#v=onepage&q=minuchin%20detour%20triangle%20scapegoat&f=false

[13] ttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/341922033_Detouring_in_the_family_system_as_an_antecedent_of_children's_adjustment_problems

[14] ttps://doi.org/10.1037/12058-005

[15] ttps://doi.org/10.1037/12058-005

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