Talk:Tropical Storm Gamma (2005)

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Former good article nomineeTropical Storm Gamma (2005) was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
August 14, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed

Good article[edit]

This is a nice article. It should be retained. --EMS | Talk 05:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Being "nice" is not a good reason to keep an article. This can, and should, be merged back into the main article. NSLE (讨论+extra) 05:51, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
This getting downright stupid. Enough subpages. This storm is not notable. Say it with me: N-O-T N-O-T-A-B-L-E. See my post on the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. I strongly support the merge. Cindy needs to go too. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 06:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why you call them "subpages", I would say "separate article". A subpage is something that is after a slash, like user subpages. You contradict yourself with every post. First you say on one talk page that the article shouldn't be there because of length issues, and now it's notability. or is it both? for me it's IMPACT. If a storm kills 30 people like this one, it should automatically get it's own article. end of story. --Revolución (talk) 21:51, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly oppose the merge, per my argument on the same talk page: that page is too bloated, it needs to be split. Titoxd(?!?) 06:41, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I've been wavering on the issue, but I am starting to think all subpages should be kept, and once the final reports from the NHC come in, we will have enough information to finish them off and do those of the least notable storms (i.e. Franklin, Harvey, Lee, Philippe, the tropical depressions). My vote now is Keep. CrazyC83 06:49, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Pretty well-done article; it has way too much info to be reasonably merged in. Jdorje 07:40, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

For now, my vote is Keep, per CrazyC83. Once the final NHC reports come in, we can merge any storms the Wiki community considers "non-notable." For now, it's notable because it is a record 24th storm, and a deadly one at that. [[Briguy52748 18:15, 23 November 2005 (UTC)]][reply]

Strongly oppose merge. It's like (but not on the same scale) of suggesting we should merge all U.S. Presidents pages into one article, and the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season page is much too long as is. --tomf688{talk} 21:07, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep this killed much more people than Alpha, so is more notable. --Revolución (talk) 21:46, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Even though Alpha was the first Tropical Storm to use the Greek alphabet. This storm caused more damage and killed more people.--24.83.117.65 00:55, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That makes the SEASON notable, not the storm. NSLE (讨论+extra) 01:04, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The amount of content that we have on this article is enough to warrant separation from the season article. Titoxd(?!?) 01:22, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly support keeping this. There is no way all of this can be put back into the season's article. Rangeley 02:17, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Strong Merge. Now "Having death count over 10" is a reason to create a separate article? This storm is not remarkable enough. I think suddenly people became overly hurricane enthusiasts because the Atlantic season finally broke the '33 record. But apart from this, there are many November storms like this one that don't have their own article. nihil 09:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I abstain from the merge debate. However I think that only Tropical Storm Alpha and whatever is the last tropical storm of the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season are in and of themselves notable because they are respectively, the first storm to exhaust a name list, and the last storm of an exceptional season. (at the moment this appears to be Hurricane Delta) 132.205.44.134 04:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. The more information we can provide on specific storms, the better. I get excited every time I see another page go up. Good work guys.165.234.109.158 14:20, 30 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Death Toll[edit]

Didn't two people die in a Gamma-related plane crash in Belize? -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 06:04, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Three people did. Those would count as indirect deaths. CrazyC83 06:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Image[edit]

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gamma_2015z_051118.jpg Somehow the French Wikipedia has an image on Tropical Storm Gamma... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.83.117.65 (talk • contribs)

Not a very good image, let's try to get one at maximum intensity, and not as focused on a different continent. NSLE (讨论+extra CVU) 05:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That is not South America. That is Central America slightly tilted. That big mass of clouds over "South AMerica" is actually Gamma north of the HOnduras.Ice 22:25, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well you could go straight to the source: NCDC. Jdorje 22:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Todo[edit]

Impact photos, references, better wikification (some terms aren't linked at all), better organization of naming/records sections (right now they are a bit dangling). Jdorje 05:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GA status?[edit]

What should be needed for GA? íslenska hurikein #12(samtal) 15:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Longer intro, better infobox pic, inline sources, impact section in chronological order, an intro to the impact section, naming and records can be combined, and preparations/aftermath. Here's a list of news stories that should be added to the article.
One more thing. You should find out the exact death toll, and find out the status with the missing people. Hurricanehink (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Tropical Storm Gamma over the western Caribbean Sea.
Here's another pic if anyone wants to work this one in. WindRunner 15:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bot report : Found duplicate references ![edit]

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "tcr" :
    • htt;"//www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TCR-AL282005_Gamma.pdf
    • http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TCR-AL282005_Gamma.pdf

DumZiBoT (talk) 13:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Plasticup T/C 11:37, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources, info, things to be worked in[edit]

  • "Tropical storm warnings were issued for the coasts of Belize, southern Mexico and Honduras' Bay Islands." [1]. Should find the original NHC warnings, include them. This also suggests prep in Belize and Mexico, even if there was no Impact/Aftermath. Plasticup T/C 13:39, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done Plasticup T/C 14:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs pictures. Especially the impact section. There are a few in google images - need to check copyright. Also, one on flickr - maybe we can persuade the person to release copyright. Plasticup T/C 14:12, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ask Mitchazenia if you want someone to possibly change copyright status on flikr, he's been able to do it for me before. Also, welcome back, good to see you editing again :) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 14:29, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Preparations[edit]

USA (always easy to find, even if the storm never reached it):

Honduras:

  • Included

Belize:

  • Minimal

Mexico:

  • None

Plasticup T/C 23:28, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Impact[edit]

Honduras:

  • ReliefWeb, Nov 21: communities cut off, destroyed 48 homes, damaged 264 and forced more than 11,000 people to evacuate. More than 50,000 people were cut off as bridges were damaged or destroyed, leaving several cities and towns isolated.

Belize:

  • Same doc as above. 3 dead in small plane crash - blamed on weather
  • Our Article says: The deaths of two fishermen in Jamaica were reported to be blamed on Gamma. [1] - the reference was to a temporary splash page, which updates daily. I don't know the original source, and so far can't find a different corroborating one.
Removed Plasticup T/C 19:47, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Plasticup T/C 23:39, 13 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ NewsDaily: TopNews - Erin drenches Houston, blamed for 1 death

Aftermath[edit]

Honduras:

22,000 tons for 1350 families? That is 16 tons per family - obviously a typo. Other info has been worked in though. Plasticup T/C 22:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Plasticup T/C 11:52, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tropical Storm Gamma (2005)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi, I am going to review this article which is currently up for Good Article Nomination. I should have the full review finished in a few hours. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 13:47, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead
  • Wikilink all place names, bodies of water and meteorology jargon
Done. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Between November 13 and November 16 the system was designated Tropical Depression 27... Since it's a name, 27 should be Twenty-Seven
Done, in the lead and elsewhere. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • You should mention it was briefly a tropical storm on November 15
Added. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Before Tropical Storm Gamma dissipated on November 22, its winds and rains also reached Belize, where they were less deadly. Reword
It now reads: Gamma's winds and rains also reached into Belize, where they were less deadly. The storm dissipated on November 22, having killed 39 people. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • In its nine days Tropical Storm Gamma killed 39 people, 34 of them in Honduras. Gamma had two lives, so it's best not to give the number of days. Also, include the damage total.
Removed it - although I'm not sure what you mean by two lives. Operationally they thought that it was dissipating, but it didn't actually. I was counting its life as being from TD formation to final dissipation. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since the storm was quite significant, you should include impact in the lead.
Meteorological history
  • Wikilink all place names, bodies of water and meteorology jargon
Done. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • A tropical wave moved off the coast of Africa on November 3. -> Tropical Storm Gamma originated out of a tropical wave that moved off the western coast of Africa on November 3.
Replace. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • For a late-season tropical wave, the system kept an unusually high amount of convection as it trekked across the Atlantic Ocean. Seems useless to mention as many other late-season storms have been stronger than Gamma.
The wave was stronger than most, not the storm that came from it. The NHC thought it was worth mentioning several times. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The National Hurricane Center began to actively track the wave when it was located about 100 miles (160 km) off the coast of Barbados. add (NHC) after National Hurricane Center
Done. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...and by November 14 the system had formed Tropical Depression 27. 27 -> Twenty-Seven
Yep. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first paragraph needs more information on steering currents. You mention shear decreasing at the end of the paragraph, was it high before but convection was strong? Please expand.
  • A break in the shear enabled the storm to briefly reach tropical storm-status on November 15, but the hostile environment quickly returned and weakened the newly christened Gamma back into a tropical depression that same day. This needs to be expanded to clarify that it was not operationally classified a tropical storm. So it wasn't named Gamma at that time, it was still Twenty-Seven.
Just reading the TCR, one could easily believe that they made no mistakes operationally. They were very unclear about this, but I see that you are right. I've changed it. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • A deeplayered subtropical high pressure ridge over the southwestern Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico propelled the system westward across the Caribbean Sea at more than 25 mph (40 km/h) and the storm's center was sheered away entirely. Sheared entirely of what?
I reworked the whole explanation: the storm's upper circulation was entirely separated from its deep convection and low level circulatory center. Plasticup T/C 13:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Soon after, the system slowed down on November 17. Need a reference. Also, why did it slow down?
  • A tropical wave, which had formed over Panama in early November and had produced rainfall in the region, merged into the waning remnants of Tropical Depression 27... What's the significance of the wave producing the rainfall? What does the merger of the wave and the remnants of Twenty-Seven mean? And again 27 -> Twenty-Seven
  • Why did the storm slow down? How did it intensify despite strong shear? Why did it track erratically? Why did it track southeast before dissipating?
Preparations
  • Wikilink all place names, bodies of water and meteorology jargon
  • There has to be some sort of preparations in the Lesser Antilles
  • Missing Florida, found several news articles about worries in the state.
  • There should be more information on preparations, such as evacuations, precautions taken by governments and local precautions.
Impact
  • Wikilink all place names, bodies of water and meteorology jargon
  • Surely there is more information for this section. The storm killed 39 people and worsened flooding caused by Beta. If you need help finding some more info, some of the sources in Hurricane Beta (2005) might have information for Gamma.
  • There should be much more information for Belize
Aftermath
  • Wikilink all place names, bodies of water and meteorology jargon
  • The section is lacking information. The aftermath section for Hurricane Beta should have information for Gamma also.

Overall the article is OK but it needs a lot of work before being promoted to GA. It doesn't meet quick-fail criteria but overall I don't think this article should have been put at GAN this early. As such, I'm putting the article On Hold for seven days to allow corrections to be made. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 14:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • [2] this link should help out a lot for impact and aftermath in Central America. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 14:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • After a couple weeks with no updates on the main and talk pages, should this be failed? Thegreatdr (talk) 19:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm really not sure, Plasticup just suddenly stopped editing with no prior warning. I'm not sure if another editor wants to take over for him so I'll leave a note on the project talk page and give another week for someone else to take over. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Sorry for abandoning this halfway through. I've had a sick cat and a new apartment on my plate. I'll be getting back shortly. Plasticup T/C 01:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • It's been 9 days since the reviewer's last comment to give another week, and 25 days since the last edit to improve the article by the submitter. Other older articles within the project are about to make the oldest articles on GAN list. I think Cyclonebiskit has been more than fair here. Thegreatdr (talk) 05:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • I would take this over and help him out but it needs too much work and since i can not help out as im rather busy at the moment in RL i cant help.Jason Rees (talk) 18:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • Then it seems logical that this article would be failed, and if the original submitter wished to make the changes required at some later time, it could be resubmitted for GA. Others of us have had to do this ourselves. Thegreatdr (talk) 04:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since it's been eight days since Plasticup said that he'd get back to the article "shortly", I would recommend simply failing the article. Once Plasticup returns, he can work on the issues on his own and renominate the article at WP:GAN on his own schedule. In the meantime, the other reviewers can get to work on other articles that are waiting for review. Dr. Cash (talk) 21:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry for the delay in my response, I've been out of town for the past few days. Per the above discussion, I am failing this article. Once the issues above have been resolved, the article can be renominated at GAN, cheers. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 13:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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